Henthorn makes a good point about Blushing Groom and Mari's Book working in both Goulash (the dam of Ashado) and Congaree; and that's significant. Also important is the fact that Mari's Book's damsire Maribeau is out of Cosmah, a very nice racemare mare who was also the dam of the very important sire Halo.
Inbreeding to Cosmah through Halo and Mari's Book has worked in Champion 3YO Filly Ashado and inbreeding to Cosmah through Halo and Queen Sucree, a full sister of Mari's Book's damsire Maribeau, has worked in the GIW Sister Act (who was by the same sire [Saint Ballado] as Ashado).
Since Halo and Blushing Groom form a strong nick; a appropriate stallion with both would be good if available. The problem with Rahy and this mare as you have described her would be size though.
The fact that Street Cry brings in Machiavellian (Mr P over Halo with the Almahmoud female family of both Halo and Northern Dancer) as his sire is a big plus.
Keith is right about not wanting to double up on Mari's Book by going with Congaree.
-llbean
Need technical advice: Pedigree and Mating
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
Have you looked at Yankee Gentleman?
Hi!
Yankee Gentleman is a son of Storm Cat and he is a well conformed individual with lots of speed. I think he is worthing checking out especially with his $10,000 stud fee.
Keith
Yankee Gentleman is a son of Storm Cat and he is a well conformed individual with lots of speed. I think he is worthing checking out especially with his $10,000 stud fee.
Keith
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SemparQuel
- Maiden Special Weight
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Really, much of the decision is somewhat reliant upon whether you are breeding to race or to sell. Also, fee is always a consideration.
I like Came Home and I love Rahy, however if you are breeding to sell, size is definitely going to be a factor, both are small.
I am not certain whether you really even wish to consider most of the Storm Cat sons. Again, size and body type probably knock many out, and conformational problems (or the potential therein) knocks others out. Forestry is probably the most notable exception, and I really like him. Of course, I also like Tactical Cat and Menifee... but, cannot say I necessarily suggest either with this mare. Additionally, given all the attempts at mating Storm Cat with top mares, I can only think of a couple success stories coming from Seattle Slew mares.
I can understand what Keith sees in Yankee Gentleman, however since your mare might have some "issues" in the front, I am not certain a stallion plaque by soundness issues makes for a good mate. I also don't like Stravinsky because, while he is built like a tank, I don't see anything but a potential dumpy foal in your future with him.
Obviously, Gone West is the most apparent choice, however many may not help you physically. I do like the suggestion of Mr. Greeley, however he has been cold as late, and this could effect the marketability. I really like El Corredor, and am sending a mare to him, however he is in the "bubble" year, thus representing a bigger risk. Johar might be a consideration, however their does exist the turf bias.
Do I like Grand Slam and Elusive Quality... well, yeah, I also like Tale of the Cat, I just don't know your stud fee $$ tolerance. Speightstown should be a consideration and Proud Citizen might be among the very top choices, but I think both are hopelessly full. I also like the pedigree of Changeintheweather, but I am not certain he will produce winners or solid sales numbers.
I also cannot truly fault Aldebaran or FuPeg either (well except for FuPeg's fee). Gulch could provide some excitement, but I don't know enough about the types of foals he throws.
I cannot think of many Blushing Groom lines which I think will get you where you wish to go. Perhaps Cherokee Run, however he isn't the biggest himself (but, both Kafwain and Yonaguska are sizeable, so perhaps he throws a bigger foal than himself). Also, Cherokee Run toes-out on one side, a trait which he seems to pass along, but I think the market has come to expect this. I am quite familiar with his sons, Yonaguska and Kafwain. Both Kafwain and Yonaguska are sizeable and have/should/will do well in the sales ring. I personally like Kafwain considerably more.
Surprisingly, I do like Honour and Glory somewhat in this spot (and this is the first time I ever remember touting him for anything), size could be an issue, and some may not like the Relaunch over Slew... but, Tiznow was a pretty solid horse.
Of course, for size and substance, I like Point Given, but he is in his bubble year and, in all honesty... from a person sending a mare to him this year... he hasn't been incredibly "hot" in the sales ring.
You may try contacting Warner Jones or Emery Jones at Walnut Green Bloodstock to see what they suggest. I believe they worked pretty closely with Christiana Stables, so they should know the "blood" fairly well.
Good luck!
I like Came Home and I love Rahy, however if you are breeding to sell, size is definitely going to be a factor, both are small.
I am not certain whether you really even wish to consider most of the Storm Cat sons. Again, size and body type probably knock many out, and conformational problems (or the potential therein) knocks others out. Forestry is probably the most notable exception, and I really like him. Of course, I also like Tactical Cat and Menifee... but, cannot say I necessarily suggest either with this mare. Additionally, given all the attempts at mating Storm Cat with top mares, I can only think of a couple success stories coming from Seattle Slew mares.
I can understand what Keith sees in Yankee Gentleman, however since your mare might have some "issues" in the front, I am not certain a stallion plaque by soundness issues makes for a good mate. I also don't like Stravinsky because, while he is built like a tank, I don't see anything but a potential dumpy foal in your future with him.
Obviously, Gone West is the most apparent choice, however many may not help you physically. I do like the suggestion of Mr. Greeley, however he has been cold as late, and this could effect the marketability. I really like El Corredor, and am sending a mare to him, however he is in the "bubble" year, thus representing a bigger risk. Johar might be a consideration, however their does exist the turf bias.
Do I like Grand Slam and Elusive Quality... well, yeah, I also like Tale of the Cat, I just don't know your stud fee $$ tolerance. Speightstown should be a consideration and Proud Citizen might be among the very top choices, but I think both are hopelessly full. I also like the pedigree of Changeintheweather, but I am not certain he will produce winners or solid sales numbers.
I also cannot truly fault Aldebaran or FuPeg either (well except for FuPeg's fee). Gulch could provide some excitement, but I don't know enough about the types of foals he throws.
I cannot think of many Blushing Groom lines which I think will get you where you wish to go. Perhaps Cherokee Run, however he isn't the biggest himself (but, both Kafwain and Yonaguska are sizeable, so perhaps he throws a bigger foal than himself). Also, Cherokee Run toes-out on one side, a trait which he seems to pass along, but I think the market has come to expect this. I am quite familiar with his sons, Yonaguska and Kafwain. Both Kafwain and Yonaguska are sizeable and have/should/will do well in the sales ring. I personally like Kafwain considerably more.
Surprisingly, I do like Honour and Glory somewhat in this spot (and this is the first time I ever remember touting him for anything), size could be an issue, and some may not like the Relaunch over Slew... but, Tiznow was a pretty solid horse.
Of course, for size and substance, I like Point Given, but he is in his bubble year and, in all honesty... from a person sending a mare to him this year... he hasn't been incredibly "hot" in the sales ring.
You may try contacting Warner Jones or Emery Jones at Walnut Green Bloodstock to see what they suggest. I believe they worked pretty closely with Christiana Stables, so they should know the "blood" fairly well.
Good luck!
Leaning toward Aldebaran. I just love his look, pedigree, and race record. Forestry foal is due in Feb. After, I hope to be able to swing some influence as to choice of stallion.
Any thoughts on Bwana Charlie, Read the Footnotes or Freud? Lakland has these, and owns a majority of the mare. They may want to breed to one of those.
Any thoughts on Bwana Charlie, Read the Footnotes or Freud? Lakland has these, and owns a majority of the mare. They may want to breed to one of those.
As a follow up: the Forestry foal was born. Feb. 6th. A colt! According to the farm, the colt is a strapping, "leggy" and perfect individual!
So now we'll see what the majority owners decide to do with him. I would like to own a Forestry colt... I will wait and see.
Thanks for the advice on breeding, I will be speaking with them about who to breed her back to shortly, and report.
So now we'll see what the majority owners decide to do with him. I would like to own a Forestry colt... I will wait and see.
Thanks for the advice on breeding, I will be speaking with them about who to breed her back to shortly, and report.
Here's the pictures of the new colt (click to enlarge the pics).
http://homepage.mac.com/dray33/queenmam ... lbum3.html
He is perfect.
Like I said before, we were worried because Queen Mama's first foal was a short and dumpy Woodman colt, 
and she looks the same. We got lucky. I knew she would do better... and her pedigree sheet, to me, is spectacular. She was on the cusp, but after seeing the colt, the majority owners have decided to keep the mare and breed her again (if they sold her, I would have tried to buy her). I love Forestry, and would have voted to go back to him, but it looks like they have decided on Empire Maker. 
Does anyone have any thoughts about him as a stallion, I must admit, I don't know much.
Dray [/img]
http://homepage.mac.com/dray33/queenmam ... lbum3.html
He is perfect.
Like I said before, we were worried because Queen Mama's first foal was a short and dumpy Woodman colt, and she looks the same. We got lucky. I knew she would do better... and her pedigree sheet, to me, is spectacular. She was on the cusp, but after seeing the colt, the majority owners have decided to keep the mare and breed her again (if they sold her, I would have tried to buy her). I love Forestry, and would have voted to go back to him, but it looks like they have decided on Empire Maker.
Does anyone have any thoughts about him as a stallion, I must admit, I don't know much.
Dray [/img]
No one can yet know what to expect from Empire Maker, as his first foals are just now hitting the ground. He comes from blue blood lines, and has every chance to be a good sire, expecially since his stud fee weeds out most of the poor mares.
The mating with Queen Mama appears to have been well-thought out, since there are multiple successful crosses in the pedigree, including Buckpasser, Cornish Prince, Rough n Tumble, In Reality, Princequillo, Bold Ruler, Northern Dancer. Seattle Slew as a broodmare sire is best with sons of Mr. Prospector, so Unbridled should fit in well. Also lots of La Troienne from several ancestors on both sides.
Good choice. And your Forestry colt looks great.
The mating with Queen Mama appears to have been well-thought out, since there are multiple successful crosses in the pedigree, including Buckpasser, Cornish Prince, Rough n Tumble, In Reality, Princequillo, Bold Ruler, Northern Dancer. Seattle Slew as a broodmare sire is best with sons of Mr. Prospector, so Unbridled should fit in well. Also lots of La Troienne from several ancestors on both sides.
Good choice. And your Forestry colt looks great.
Rocking H
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Monmouth Matt
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Forestry
Dray......Great to see your again.Hope all is well. Saw the 2yr. old sale results.Looked good to me,but I hope your pleased. Anyway,I'm with you....Forestry. I believe he will be the leading son of the 'Cat...when all is said and done.
And DOWN the stretch they come!
I think the key to this mare is the comment that she is 'short and dumpy' Seattle Slew was not at all like this but "Mama's" damsire Maris Book was, a typical short and stout Northern Dancer son. If you are aiming at the sales, I would pick out something large and beautiful and cross your fingers that the resulting foal will look like Dad rather than Mom. On the other hand, the biomechanics folks say you should breed like body types so if you are intending to race and adhere to that theory, you might pick out something mid-sized with plenty of stout.
Good luck in whatever you decide.
Good luck in whatever you decide.