THE HORSE OF THE YEAR DEBATE

[Shammy Davis]

Oliverstoned posted:

. . . hope to win a old citizen title myself someday.

I'm at the age that I want to win the "most well perserved" title. I was reminded that a perservative used in labs is alcohol, so I'm drinking a lot more to increase my chances of securing the title.

[Kari]

It wasn't just that Zenyatta won it yesterday- it was the way she won it. A big ruckus at the gate, a bad break, the pace not working out the way it was predicted, etc. She still zipped in from the parking lot, wagged her ears as she pulled up after the finish, and came back looking like she just spent 30 min. on the hot walker. RA is a freak, but she needs to come back next year older, wiser, and tougher before I say she's as good as Zenyatta.

It wasn't just that Zenyatta won it yesterday- it was the way she won it.

1 race does not make up for a year of mis management. I have said that repeadtly. and it doesn't. if that was the case voponi would have won the HOY.

you keep coming back to abailty, and it not about who is better. it's about who has the best year.

I love zenyatta. but her year does not warrant a horse of the year award. probably the most exciting breeders cup classic yes. she will be on the top of all the "best classic moments" but not HOY


we constantly talk about ' what can we do to better the game'

well we can start by giving the horse of the year aware to the one that actually went out of their way to do things all year thus making horse racing more exciting ALL YEAR long, thus giving people reasons to run their hores. that's a start.

it will get better before it gets worse if we start handing HOY awards to the horse that wins the breeders cup withd isregard to everything else they did all year


people try tio make it are you pro or anti zenyatta, like karen did.

I'm PRO HORSE RACING. I'm pro putting asses in seats. And you start by given credit where credit is due. you give the award to someone who has done more to put butts in seats all year long.

has nothing to do with who i think would win in a match race (i am starting to think zenyatta would). that is irrevlant. I think Zenyatta might be more talanted. but that does not mean she had the better year, and the mosses have no one to blame but themselves, if they even care about teh hoy award.

Meh. If it's just about "who did more for the sport", then it would be RA, hands down. She was on network TV more, got more media coverage, and made more headlines. I don't give two hoots about the fact that it was a BC race yesterday- that kind of display against that kind of talent anywhere, any time would have me singing the praises of the horse that did it.

Everyone keeps talking about mismanagement on the part of the Mosses and Jess Jackson. Here's my fan side talking: I want to see my favorite horses run more than every other month. I'd love to turn on the TV and see them run once a month. It seems like that just can't be done any more. I don't care exactly WHY that is (that's a whole other thread, and I think it's been done repeatedly in different contexts). I want it fixed, and I want to see my favorites run more. This cherry-picking, micro-analyzing, noncommittal stuff that happens with the schedules of the top horses drives me absolutely nuts.

Back to the topic at hand, bdw0617 raises an interesting point. What do the Eclipse voters base their votes on? Is it always the race record? Is it the record compared to the competition faced? In a real dogfight like we seem to have here, does ability mean more than what the horse has done for the sport?

[wangkw]

Elipse voters will be swayed by emotion and social pressure...this time round..that benefits Zen..moreover..as you all forgot BC races
always carry more weight ..why ?..they r more competitive, more international, more open !!!

Race record is important surely..but watch out the commotion these few days..that tip the scale to Zen's court.

In other years..it was what the record in a particular year that mattered... not this year though..and the streak will shine like a
rainbow...esp..on technical ground..Zen was not made one in 2008...RA still got her chance next year..so..choosing Zen now will
place both in a win-win situation..unless RA will slip in the new season..if it turns out to be the case..then..retrospectively..RA
should never be the Queen anyway.

As to Goldikova..back to back win in BC Mile does impress..but not good enough for big title..supporting role is the best she can get.

[geowarrior]

Zenyatta's a legend, even now. Rachel is well on her way. Down the road it won't matter which one is Horse of the Year. Just as it didn't matter whether Personal Ensign or Winning Colors was Horse of the Year, their places in history are secure.

[JimbleBrimble]

This thread is starting to sound like the Seabiscuit v. War Admiral debate! I love it!

Yeah, if only Al Gore had been born ten years earlier than he was!

[Playwithfire]

I for one would like to see Zenyatta win the HOY, but I fear she may fall slightly short. While her thrilling victory is fresh in our memory, and who can forget that race, the horse center of the world is Kentucky. And she did not race there. Rachel did. The impressive victory in the Kentucky Oaks, probably stands out to those who were there, like the BC Classic does to myself and others who were at Santa Anita Saturday.

I also agree with BDW in the sense that she won more races, including a Triple Crown race, and she faced the boys more times. Her win in the Woodward was fantastic. Just brutal fractions and she hung on, not unlike Zenyatta winning from last to first with modest fractions. I think that race took a TON out of her, and that put the stamp on her season being over.

While it would have been a dream match-up, i'm sure Jackson would have complained that she didn't like the track if she lost, like he did last year about Curlin, despite Curlin leading for home having made a ridiculous move around the far turn -- one that a horse who "doesn't like the track" couldn't make -- from 8th to 1st, 5 wide, in a 1/4 mile (in like 22 and change). But that's a debate for last years forum.

I'm sure Jackson knew the BC Classic wasn't the best set-up for Rachel. 10 furlongs, synthetic track-not generally kind to front runners, huge classy field. She had a long, tiring season, and while I wish she ran in the Classic, i suspect the owner had felt she'd done enough this year to win HOY, and let's give her a break and run in 2010 and not jeopardize her win streak. Not racing in the Classic is a big deal, especially when her nearest competitor for HOY wins it, but one I think she may narrowly overcome.

[wen8t]

when the voters are voting, RA did so much as a 3 year old and its been amazing, compared to what Z has done as a 5 yearold, if you look at it like that is really that close,Ra has to be the HOY don't you think?

[Curlin]

never in the history of horse of the year, has a horse ever won the award without ever traveling outside of their home state. all eyar zenyatta has never traveled from southern calfironia. okay technically she went to churchill but scratched out the race

the fact that zenyatta is 14 for 14, and is clearly the best MARE of this decade, probably of the last couple of decades, and she could very realisticly not win a horse of the year award, tells you just how bad the mosses played this her entire career.

Azeri raced the entire year in CA, save her BC race. It didn't seem to bother the Eclipse people any. Why does it matter if a horse races in CA all year, while if it races in NY all year (like Personal Ensign, except her BC race) no one seems to raise this as an issue? It's just an East Coast bias that our tracks in CA are a notch below NY or KY. When one sees how many synth horses have won stakes on dirt in the last 2-3 years outside of CA (around ... 20 by my last count), whining about where the horse conducts its primary campaign becomes a strawman argument.

And for the umpteenth time, Zenyatta won the Apple Blossom in only her 4th start. It was easily, with the exception of the BC Classic, her most impressive race. How many horses do you know that have beaten a reigning Eclipse Award champion in their 4th career start?

She is the greatest mare, if not the greatest horse, period, in my lifetime - and I am an old fart. She deserves HOTY. RA will be in training next year, which leaves her to get HOTY honors in 2010, if she races as well as she did in 2009.

[jagger]

I really don't know what criteria are used by the voters for the Eclipse Awards. It may not even be consistent from one voter to the other. There may be NO guidelines that must be adhered to by the voters. WHERE are most of the voters is probably significant. Unfortunately, I suspect politics plays a part and if the owners are part of the equation, Jackson vs Moss......? Zen gets HOY.

[wangkw]

Sure..politics is universal..omni-present..but that applies to marginal case..currently..it is..photo btw the 2.

[JimbleBrimble]

I also agree with BDW in the sense that she won more races, including a Triple Crown race, and she faced the boys more times. Her win in the Woodward was fantastic. Just brutal fractions and she hung on

Come on, can we at least deal only in 2009 reality???

The Woodward has had more "brutal" fractions in three out of the five most recent prior runnings, and the same "brutal" fractions in one of the other two.

Translation: those "brutal" fractions in the 2009 Woodward tied for the second-slowest fractions in six runnings.

No wonder Rachel is still in the picture for HOY - because reality matters to so very few.

[bdw0617]

pretty random thought, but didn't a 2YO win the horse of the year award not to long ago? was it favoriate trick?

he did not run 10F he couln't have.

[jagger]

Correct, bdw, and of course Big Red won as a 2yo as well.

[wangkw]

Moved.

[Tiz]

I love them both. RA 3 year old, Z HOY

To be fair, I wish you all would drop the "ducking" claim leveled at Rachel's connections. She's still a 3 year filly, who ran some pretty demanding races this season. Putting her up for the year is a careful approach, and ensures she'll be in one piece for next year. If she had gone to Santa Anita, and gotten hurt, how long do you think it would take for the screaming and 20/20 hindsight to subside?