Inbreeding to Deputy Minister

[zinn21]

I have a season to the stallion, Tannersmyman. If I decided to breed one of my mare's, Grace N Perfection to him, it would result in a 3x4 to Deputy Minister; also 4x4 to Mr. P. I am not familiar with inbreeding to DM. Thought I read something to the effect that it has been a failure.

Any thoughts on this hypo are appreciated.

[Tappiano]

I have not read anything about that. I wonder if those other one's have Secretariat in their pedigrees? We know he likes that blood so I would be more concerned about the physical match up then the inbreeding to DM, but that's just my opinion.

[vineyridge]

My vet, who breeds horses for the big sales (25k and up stud fees), told me that there was some thought that Deputy Minister might produce hock problems. That came up in connection with a Deputy Minister granddaughter riding mare that I had in for a lameness exam. She ended up getting hock injections and she is only five.

[Tappiano]

I wonder if that explains why Badge of Silver had ouchy feet.... maybe it is the hocks. I think Spring At Last might have had them as well, but I do not know that for sure.

[Sysonby]

I have a Deputy Minister line mare so I actually researched this a little this year and of the 5 horses of racing age that I found inbred to Deputy Minister, only two have raced with one winner of less than $10,000 in only 4 starts and another unplaced.

Now this is a small sample (and it was limited to the mares by one particular Deputy Minister line stallion) but I didn't find it encouraging.

[Tappiano]

Sysonby, would you happen to know if any were physically similar? I am asking because there seem to be quite a few differences physically between Silver Deputy sons Posse and his son Kodiak Kowboy versus Badge of Silver and Spring at Last. It would be really interesting to see if the physical results had any bearing.

[zinn21]

That is not very good though it is a small sampling. One thing I think this mare's family seems to get along well with is Raise A Native line blood. Need to do so more research. I do like the physical match with Tannersmyman. Thanks for the input..

[brogers]

You should try and get yourself a subscription to The Jockey Club's Pedigree Analysis Program where you can complete a query by inbreeding to any horse and it gives you a breakdown of the foals, colts, fillies and then performance by age.

Here is Deputy Minister.

283 foals of racing age
149 (52.7%) runners
84 (29.7%) winners
2 (0.7%) stakes winners
$4,302,671 in earnings.

The two stakes winners are Roman Chestnut and Deputy Etbauer.

[zinn21]

brogers, thanks...

[jagger]

It's a little too early to know if inbreeding to DM is successful or not. Just a few years ago, there were only 52 horses who won at least one Graded Stakes race when inbreeding to Mr. P. The current Goldmine database now lists 595 horses who are inbred to Mr. P who have won at least 1 Graded Stakes race. Since DM is 9 years younger than Mr. P., it is not likely that we will know for several years if it is a success or not. More important are the conduits in an inbreeding. Of the 595 horses inbred to Mr. P that have won at least one Graded Stakes, Fappiano is one of the conduits 197 times....roughly 33%. Then, depending if Fappiano is on the top or bottom, the other sons of Mr. P that he has been most successful with are Forty-Niner, Conquistador Cielo, Gone West and Seeking the Gold. Carefully selecting the conduits are the secret to successful inbreeding......if there is enough data to know.

[Tappiano]

Oh I'm gonna hopefully have a Fappiano on top and a Forty Niner on the bottom next year but not direct sire line so will be interesting.

[zinn21]

jagger wrote:

Of the 595 horses inbred to Mr. P that have won at least one Graded Stakes, Fappiano is one of the conduits 197 times....roughly 33%. Then, depending if Fappiano is on the top or bottom, the other sons of Mr. P that he has been most successful with are Forty-Niner, Conquistador Cielo, Gone West and Seeking the Gold. Carefully selecting the conduits are the secret to successful inbreeding

In my case, the resulting foal would be inbred 4x4 to Mr. P through Carson City on top and Gone West on the bottom. Interesting to note that Commendable by Gone West is out of Fappiano's half sister Bought Twice.

3x4 to DM through Tannersmyman's dam and Dehere's full brother Defrere.

[jagger]

Gone West is one of the better conduits to Mr.P. Can't remember if he is better on the top or bottom though. Will check Goldmine when I get home in the morning. Carson City is NOT one of the better conduits. Of greater concern, for me, would be that the foal would be fairly closely inbred to 2 horses. This is tying up a lot of blood in just 2 horses. I would probably not do it. Just my .02 .

[vineyridge]

The Mr. P x Roberto, particularly Kris S, has been a very productive cross lately. I'm beginning to believe that Mr. P needs a dose of Padua--or at the very least a hefty dose of Domino.

[zinn21]

jagger wrote:

Of greater concern, for me, would be that the foal would be fairly closely inbred to 2 horses. This is tying up a lot of blood in just 2 horses. I would probably not do it. Just my .02 .

I've thought seriously about that but Tannersmyman seems to get foals with nice bone, correct, great hips and super minds from a variety of mares both in pedigree and physical type. I've decided to give the mating a shot..