No Ajo, I think I have been effective, though certainly not successful, yet.
Like yourself, at least from what I have read, you are a student of history. There are a few more moves to be made, but as long as slots or nothing is the strategy, there is no king or Queen in our future. Just more frontline pawns.
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keyranch
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There were certainly other circumstances than just the comments of one THP board member and I can not blame anyone but lack of time and experience to pull this off. I actually wanted to put the concept out there for others to see and if they chose to take the ball and run with it, I would be happy to give them what we did learn about it.
The task at hand though is the 1.7 mil question of how the TRC is going to be able to perform their duties and take care of their budget. If the tracks are lawyering up over the class two licenses; then, the additional fees for the inbuilt tracks may not materialize in this budget period.
If you recall in one of the last meetings of the race dates debate last year, the TRC read into the minutes of the meeting the cost to the industry and state for those tracks not to be built. When the tracks apply and are granted a license they are expected to provide racing opportunity for the horsemen, employment in their communities, and revenue to the state. The fines that can be imposed by the TRC may be based upon the loss of revenue to the horsemen and state.
I agree with Tinner, Retama not running TB's, especially since they have been the most willing to cooperate with the horsemen is not a penalty to impose on them. This is off memory from last year, the racetracks pay taxes to the state based on total handle generated. They have only passed that threshold amount one time and that was when the breeders cup was here. If they are trying to avoid that threshold by keeping the meets shorter, would that not be a concern to the horsemen and state.
Finally, FYI-the former director of the TRC received awards for establishing communication networks and her former position was to get difficult legislation passed for the Govs office. If you folks do not understand that when you supported the 48% cut in dates last year the legislators, Govs office, AG, etc were not aware that the consequences of that(whether intended or not) would be to gut the financing of the TRC. The sunset passed with no dissenting votes, which was the number one goal! The associations refusing to cooperate with the TRC after repeatedly being asked to solve the problem and the behavior toward their membership that was in the transcripts could have been dispersed through the same communication network. Commissioner in charge is a former federal prosecutor and if you do not understand that everything he says is for a reason you are underestimating his resolve. Just as they did last year by having so many meetings, they have given the associations a chance to solve the problem and represent their membership.
The bottom line is that both associations became thoroughly exposed for supporting and promoting the 48% cut which would have gutted the industry for political purposes. Solve the problem, work the numbers, the TRC will be funded one way or the other!!!
The task at hand though is the 1.7 mil question of how the TRC is going to be able to perform their duties and take care of their budget. If the tracks are lawyering up over the class two licenses; then, the additional fees for the inbuilt tracks may not materialize in this budget period.
If you recall in one of the last meetings of the race dates debate last year, the TRC read into the minutes of the meeting the cost to the industry and state for those tracks not to be built. When the tracks apply and are granted a license they are expected to provide racing opportunity for the horsemen, employment in their communities, and revenue to the state. The fines that can be imposed by the TRC may be based upon the loss of revenue to the horsemen and state.
I agree with Tinner, Retama not running TB's, especially since they have been the most willing to cooperate with the horsemen is not a penalty to impose on them. This is off memory from last year, the racetracks pay taxes to the state based on total handle generated. They have only passed that threshold amount one time and that was when the breeders cup was here. If they are trying to avoid that threshold by keeping the meets shorter, would that not be a concern to the horsemen and state.
Finally, FYI-the former director of the TRC received awards for establishing communication networks and her former position was to get difficult legislation passed for the Govs office. If you folks do not understand that when you supported the 48% cut in dates last year the legislators, Govs office, AG, etc were not aware that the consequences of that(whether intended or not) would be to gut the financing of the TRC. The sunset passed with no dissenting votes, which was the number one goal! The associations refusing to cooperate with the TRC after repeatedly being asked to solve the problem and the behavior toward their membership that was in the transcripts could have been dispersed through the same communication network. Commissioner in charge is a former federal prosecutor and if you do not understand that everything he says is for a reason you are underestimating his resolve. Just as they did last year by having so many meetings, they have given the associations a chance to solve the problem and represent their membership.
The bottom line is that both associations became thoroughly exposed for supporting and promoting the 48% cut which would have gutted the industry for political purposes. Solve the problem, work the numbers, the TRC will be funded one way or the other!!!
Mr. Kerby, I'd like to address your post stating a THP board member is responsible for your horse sale not taking place and saying negative comments about your sale. I've contacted every THP board member. The only one who knew you were even having a sale is Dr. Weilburg since he posts on PQ and FB. No other board member even knew you were having a sale, not even Roark who lives in Bell County where your sell was to take place. So, once again you have managed to post statements that aren't true. Looking forward to seeing you on the 23rd.
Jan, Iv'e been planning to email you a thanks standing up for us at the TxRC. I know that Marsha did the talking, but she represents you and the board. Its funny how a group with so much in common can fight and call each other names like a bunch of 3rd graders. All of us old men could and should rise above this.
We all need a fresh start looking to the future of racing in Texas. The single most difficult problem we are going to face is the politician. It seems to me that they are all running for president and are afraid of offending their base. With that facing us were do we go? The leaders of our industry need to get together and come out with some short term goals and some long term goals to guide us. Everyone in racing should know those goals and be able to discuss them and to own them.
We all need a fresh start looking to the future of racing in Texas. The single most difficult problem we are going to face is the politician. It seems to me that they are all running for president and are afraid of offending their base. With that facing us were do we go? The leaders of our industry need to get together and come out with some short term goals and some long term goals to guide us. Everyone in racing should know those goals and be able to discuss them and to own them.
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
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keyranch
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Queen, in the last post I stated that I can not blame anyone for the sale except time and experience. We were told that it was a THP board member, but most likely they were just expressing an opinion of the feasability or support for the sale. That is what we were told and can not verify it and it really does not matter at this point and I should not have put that in my posting!!
As far as the 23rd goes, I am not required to be there and do not have any desire to visit Houston. If you want to see me in Sept in Dallas that is your choice.
As far as the 23rd goes, I am not required to be there and do not have any desire to visit Houston. If you want to see me in Sept in Dallas that is your choice.
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keyranch
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Back to the issue at hand, Race dates calender. Thinking about the statements made about LS not running 60 days as was presented to the TRC. The decision to improve the simulcast area of LS is a bussiness decision of the racetrack and has no bearing on the days that was presented. When global took over RP the simulcast signals took a very healthy increase. It was the same horses and trainers so you have to assume they marketed the signal better and got away from some of the old MEC contracts and fee schedules. If you use Remington as a model, what are the projections for purses at 60 days. I would bet the numbers have already been crunched.
Another out of the box idea that was presented last year was Mr. Jacksons proposal to run the mixed days with a twelve race card. Six races TB and six races QH. This would create the opportunity to package and selling the signals. You would get more races on the same operational cost and put on a better program for the folks in attendance. The purses should improve for the QH races and get off of the 5k cap on TB's. Both associations blasted th idea last year, stating the staffs could not handle a 12 race care etc. I guess the staff at Gil is much more inspired.
Back to the gap, the tracks say they do not make as much money in the Nov and Dec slots. Without racing the horsemen are making NO money and the TRC is not generating revenue for its budgit. So the question to the tracks should be is are you not will to make less money in those time frames, than pay much higher fees to the TRC when it comes time for license renewel!!
If PNG does not want to be members of the community in Texas; then, the decision is on them to pay the fees to support the TRC on all of their licenses. As good bussiness men, it makes much more sense for them to be good citizens of the community and become part of the solution for the horsemen and TRC!!
I have no doubt, that given a fair and equitable plan that Ret will do its fare share to be part of the solution.
With all the rumors about new fees being put on the horsemen to offset the budget problems of the TRC. It is probably time to take a serious look at the positives and negatives of moving the T-bred funds under the administration of the TRC to avoid all or most of those fees to the horsemen. I am having a very hard time to come up with the negatives at this time so I will visit with the other five mushrooms and list them later.
This is my political opinion and am sticking to it!!!
Another out of the box idea that was presented last year was Mr. Jacksons proposal to run the mixed days with a twelve race card. Six races TB and six races QH. This would create the opportunity to package and selling the signals. You would get more races on the same operational cost and put on a better program for the folks in attendance. The purses should improve for the QH races and get off of the 5k cap on TB's. Both associations blasted th idea last year, stating the staffs could not handle a 12 race care etc. I guess the staff at Gil is much more inspired.
Back to the gap, the tracks say they do not make as much money in the Nov and Dec slots. Without racing the horsemen are making NO money and the TRC is not generating revenue for its budgit. So the question to the tracks should be is are you not will to make less money in those time frames, than pay much higher fees to the TRC when it comes time for license renewel!!
If PNG does not want to be members of the community in Texas; then, the decision is on them to pay the fees to support the TRC on all of their licenses. As good bussiness men, it makes much more sense for them to be good citizens of the community and become part of the solution for the horsemen and TRC!!
I have no doubt, that given a fair and equitable plan that Ret will do its fare share to be part of the solution.
With all the rumors about new fees being put on the horsemen to offset the budget problems of the TRC. It is probably time to take a serious look at the positives and negatives of moving the T-bred funds under the administration of the TRC to avoid all or most of those fees to the horsemen. I am having a very hard time to come up with the negatives at this time so I will visit with the other five mushrooms and list them later.
This is my political opinion and am sticking to it!!!
Joe, have you actually talked to any gate crew at Gillespie? The ones I talked to told me that if they had to do more than eight days over a two month period they either couldn't or wouldn't. They are flat out exhausted at the end of a twelve race day.
Also, would you kindly tell us exactly what charges the TRC is going to make to the horsemen, as authorized by the Racing Act? Rumors and speculation don't count; share your facts with us, if you have any.
Also, would you kindly tell us exactly what charges the TRC is going to make to the horsemen, as authorized by the Racing Act? Rumors and speculation don't count; share your facts with us, if you have any.
[quote="Ajo"]Joe, have you actually talked to any gate crew at Gillespie? The ones I talked to told me that if they had to do more than eight days over a two month period they either couldn't or wouldn't. They are flat out exhausted at the end of a twelve race day.
How many trial races a day do they have at Ruidosa? Are the gate folks volunteers a Gillespie?
How many trial races a day do they have at Ruidosa? Are the gate folks volunteers a Gillespie?
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
A Gap or Gaps, that is the question. (seems like I heard something like that before)
Just looking at this question from the stand point of everyone other than the tracks, I think we would all agree that a gap would be better. To me a gap in the summer makes sense, its hot, and there is a great deal of competion. A gap in the summer would allow two year olds a few more months to mature. A gap is less moving in most cases. A Gap would allow trainers to train their horses to the horse's potential.
Gaps? what are the advantages of haveing 3 gaps over the year?
We all hate not racing, but the purse money does dictate the number of days to some extent and we are stuck with gaps or time off.
Going to a Gap would make Texas racing much like it was pre 1970. Race, Rest, train-up and Race. Its not the best of ideas for trainers, but the horses would love it.
Just looking at this question from the stand point of everyone other than the tracks, I think we would all agree that a gap would be better. To me a gap in the summer makes sense, its hot, and there is a great deal of competion. A gap in the summer would allow two year olds a few more months to mature. A gap is less moving in most cases. A Gap would allow trainers to train their horses to the horse's potential.
Gaps? what are the advantages of haveing 3 gaps over the year?
We all hate not racing, but the purse money does dictate the number of days to some extent and we are stuck with gaps or time off.
Going to a Gap would make Texas racing much like it was pre 1970. Race, Rest, train-up and Race. Its not the best of ideas for trainers, but the horses would love it.
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
One more gap idea, if we thought of racing weeks instead of racing days, we could stretch racing out quiet a lot. Racing 2 days or 3 days a week could add extra weeks to the calendar. It might not be the best idea for the tracks, I don't know what is best for the tracks. I do know that under the old management at SH, they said that they made their money during the TB meet and it carried all the other programs through the year. This pre Ike?
Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
Try it you will like it.
Try it you will like it.
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keyranch
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That is why they call them rumors, backside seams to be breeding grounds for misinformation to be put out there for self serving purposes. It appears to me someone is trying to make the TRC to be the bad guys in this scenario and sway the horsemen's opinion.
As far as the gate crews go, in the current economic times I am sure the thousands of folks that work at the track would appreciated every effort made to get them more work. If the idea had merit to support additional racing days by improving the sale of the signal or improving the contribution to purses, would that not be the first concern of the horsemen's representatives. We have been told in front of the commission that the TTHBPA is very selective on who they represent, even though they applied for the job of horsemen's representatives to the TRC.
I answered your questions, now mine is rather simple. Who is the person or persons negotiating with the racetracks for next years racing schedule? How much experience do they have? You see, the impact of these decisions effect the finances of the trainers, track employees, farms, jockeys, and TRC; it is a big responsibility to the industry and I think we should know who is making the decisions for our future!!
As far as the gate crews go, in the current economic times I am sure the thousands of folks that work at the track would appreciated every effort made to get them more work. If the idea had merit to support additional racing days by improving the sale of the signal or improving the contribution to purses, would that not be the first concern of the horsemen's representatives. We have been told in front of the commission that the TTHBPA is very selective on who they represent, even though they applied for the job of horsemen's representatives to the TRC.
I answered your questions, now mine is rather simple. Who is the person or persons negotiating with the racetracks for next years racing schedule? How much experience do they have? You see, the impact of these decisions effect the finances of the trainers, track employees, farms, jockeys, and TRC; it is a big responsibility to the industry and I think we should know who is making the decisions for our future!!
Joe, if you had been present at the last meeting you would understand well who your negotiators are and the scope of their tasks. Each major track has already committed to more dates and has allowed that, if handle supports it, they would be amenable to adding some extra dates. Since the meeting, one major concern has already been attended and corrected. Negotiations over stabling during gaps are still taking place. The THP negotiators are experienced (I am not a negotiator) and I feel that my trainer and his employees, my racehorses, my farm and my family and my employees, my breeding associates, as well as all horsemen who are THP members, are being well represented.
Please go back to page 157 and re-enlighten yourself as to some facts about racing date commitments.
Also, TTHBPA, in a straw poll, supports opening of the simulcast facilities at licensed-but-non-constructed tracks for the potential revenue source for both horsemen and the state.
Please go back to page 157 and re-enlighten yourself as to some facts about racing date commitments.
Also, TTHBPA, in a straw poll, supports opening of the simulcast facilities at licensed-but-non-constructed tracks for the potential revenue source for both horsemen and the state.
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jrgators
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It's so disheartening to see the same old arguments, with the same level of negativity.
I have made it safely back home, and thanks for all the well wishes for my family and I. I realized Saturday afternoon that after you cross the Texas boarder on I-30 you have about 25 miles of green, and from there to Lockhart there was nothing but brown, burnt, and bare fields!
It's soooooo good to be home!
I have made it safely back home, and thanks for all the well wishes for my family and I. I realized Saturday afternoon that after you cross the Texas boarder on I-30 you have about 25 miles of green, and from there to Lockhart there was nothing but brown, burnt, and bare fields!
It's soooooo good to be home!
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keyranch
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Posted: Fri Jul 15, 2011 9:46 am Post subject:
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Theo, the initial requests were published yesterday. 53 for Lone Star (a decrease of 7 days from what they requested, and have been published on the TRC website), 31 for Houston, and 23, I believe, for Retama.
These dates will not close the gap, nor will they impact the budget shortfall of the TRC!!
If the negotiators are the ones that supported the 60 day only meet last year!! I am afraid that confidence will not be shared by Texas horsemen in general. Again, you want to remind us that you only represent the membership of the TTHBPA, when you applied to the be the horsemen's rep to the TRC, did you specify that you only represented the TTHBPA members. The folks that hold current owners licenses like myself or livelihood is dependent on a viable racing circuit are not to be considered in any way!!
When the associations were looking for people to show up in Austin, it is strange to me they did not require seeing their membership cards before they packed them on the buses?
If you do not have the ability to negotiate and solve the race dates problem, then, hire someone who can! PNG and Global are national organizations, representing us with Bubba and Bridget at negotiations is not our first choice. Thats like sending a high school kid to the Majors. For every day they do not run; the TRC will have to increase either licensing fees or day rates to make up for their budget shortfalls!
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Theo, the initial requests were published yesterday. 53 for Lone Star (a decrease of 7 days from what they requested, and have been published on the TRC website), 31 for Houston, and 23, I believe, for Retama.
These dates will not close the gap, nor will they impact the budget shortfall of the TRC!!
If the negotiators are the ones that supported the 60 day only meet last year!! I am afraid that confidence will not be shared by Texas horsemen in general. Again, you want to remind us that you only represent the membership of the TTHBPA, when you applied to the be the horsemen's rep to the TRC, did you specify that you only represented the TTHBPA members. The folks that hold current owners licenses like myself or livelihood is dependent on a viable racing circuit are not to be considered in any way!!
When the associations were looking for people to show up in Austin, it is strange to me they did not require seeing their membership cards before they packed them on the buses?
If you do not have the ability to negotiate and solve the race dates problem, then, hire someone who can! PNG and Global are national organizations, representing us with Bubba and Bridget at negotiations is not our first choice. Thats like sending a high school kid to the Majors. For every day they do not run; the TRC will have to increase either licensing fees or day rates to make up for their budget shortfalls!
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jrgators
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JOE, c'mon dude!
Blame, none of us know who's to blame, or what the final outcome will be! Blasting the associations for this I don't agree with you on at all! Call the TTA and HBPA and find out WHO the negotiators are, and/or what they are trying to get done.
If we don't get the idea that it's essential for us to work together for the changes needed, we will waste a lot of time, and energy on nothing happening. I don't have the time to call today, but I will call toorrow and see what's going on, and how/if I can help in anyway.
Let's not accuse anyone of doing or not doing anything until we know that it's factual.
If it's proven that the HBPA, or TTA is not supporting closing the gaps I will promise personally that I won't stop until everyone from Maine to California knows that this is what's going on with the race dates here in Texas. What I refuse to do is lay blame on someone, and I do not KNOW what's going on for certain.
Be mindful that Bubba and Bridgette is as arrogant as the Okie, and the bus driver! You're better than that homie!
The gap is horrible, but let's not forget 115 is the number of race dates for Tbreds. That's not great, but all things considered, 115 isn't bad at all! The gaps, yep they are horrible!
Roger, I hope that the group at LSP will hear you, but I don't think that they will. We can only hope, but having spent so many weeks in Ohio I REALLY get the need to be out of the summer heat in Texas!
Theo
Blame, none of us know who's to blame, or what the final outcome will be! Blasting the associations for this I don't agree with you on at all! Call the TTA and HBPA and find out WHO the negotiators are, and/or what they are trying to get done.
If we don't get the idea that it's essential for us to work together for the changes needed, we will waste a lot of time, and energy on nothing happening. I don't have the time to call today, but I will call toorrow and see what's going on, and how/if I can help in anyway.
Let's not accuse anyone of doing or not doing anything until we know that it's factual.
If it's proven that the HBPA, or TTA is not supporting closing the gaps I will promise personally that I won't stop until everyone from Maine to California knows that this is what's going on with the race dates here in Texas. What I refuse to do is lay blame on someone, and I do not KNOW what's going on for certain.
Be mindful that Bubba and Bridgette is as arrogant as the Okie, and the bus driver! You're better than that homie!
The gap is horrible, but let's not forget 115 is the number of race dates for Tbreds. That's not great, but all things considered, 115 isn't bad at all! The gaps, yep they are horrible!
Roger, I hope that the group at LSP will hear you, but I don't think that they will. We can only hope, but having spent so many weeks in Ohio I REALLY get the need to be out of the summer heat in Texas!
Theo