Was Tapit's base color chestnut?

Talk about equine color, markings, genetics, etc. Post pictures of flashy Thoroughbreds!

Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, Jorge, Sunday Silence

User avatar
diomed
Grade III Winner
Posts: 1142
Joined: Mon Oct 04, 2004 4:16 pm

Was Tapit's base color chestnut?

Postby diomed » Wed Apr 24, 2013 4:51 pm

Just wondering because I did not know. That would explain Z13 being ch. One thing is obvious; Zenyatta is not a dominant bay(not that it's a bad thing).
I suspect that Rachel might be dominant bay. She foaled bay with a chestnut sire.
Bernardini is a dominant bay so it makes sense that both his foals from both great mares are also bay.
I love coat color genetics. :D

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:04 pm

I am convinced that phenotypically and genetically speaking he ought to be a subjacent chestnut, in spite the fact that his more immediate pedigree fashions far more bays than chestnuts.

When one examines his solid color (non-grey) progeny in general, it is quite evident that he sires much more "chestnut" progeny than "bays" and "dark-bay-or-browns" combined. We know that when two chestnuts (including a subjacent grey chestnut) are crossed the resulting product ought to be a "chestnut", which explains why he sires so many "chestnut" progeny. Tapit "behaves" like a "chestnut" and that's the reason why he tends to sire horses who "whitens" so fast and early like Juvenile Champion, Hansen.

At this moment, Tapit's son out of Zenyatta looks either like a subjacent chestnut grey or a run-of-the-mill chestnut. That will be more evident soon, but in either case, his chestnut influence seems to come from Tapit.

In synthesis, Tapit seems to be a bona-fide subjacent chestnut grey.

User avatar
Pan Zareta
Breeder's Cup Winner
Posts: 2074
Joined: Wed Dec 22, 2004 10:55 am
Location: west TX boonies

Postby Pan Zareta » Wed Apr 24, 2013 8:22 pm

Home From Oz 2002, one of Tapit's full sisters, is chestnut.

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:21 am

According to the following photo, Zenyatta's second foal,
a colt by the grey Tapit, is a "chestnut" and not a "grey".
Take look at the following photo:

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos- ... 2108_n.jpg

User avatar
accphotography
Restricted Stakes Winner
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:03 am

Postby accphotography » Fri Apr 26, 2013 9:53 am

A little too early to tell, but yes, he's likely not gray.
Image

Image

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Fri Apr 26, 2013 1:07 pm

accphotography wrote: A little too early to tell, but yes, he's likely not gray.


Dear Accphotography,

Thanks for your very interesting comments.

If you were to cling to the possibility that the second
foal of Zenyatta would eventually turn gray,
what photographic examples would you show us
in support of that slim possibility?

Wow, would really like to see those examples.

User avatar
accphotography
Restricted Stakes Winner
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:03 am

Postby accphotography » Fri Apr 26, 2013 7:49 pm

Well grays are born their base color, not already gray, so just because he doesn't look gray right now doesn't really mean anything. Granted he's not the rich, dark tone I expect of a foal to gray, not all of them show that.

All of these guys grayed:

http://www.whyneemah.com/NEW/images/168 ... 266_n1.jpg

http://www.whyneemah.com/web/news/Khezia%20sml.jpg

http://www.whyneemah.com/web/news/30%20 ... %20095.jpg

http://www.whyneemah.com/web/news/30%20 ... %20102.jpg

http://www.whyneemah.com/web/news/flowers%20099.jpg

http://www.circledhorses.com/judge,%20k ... 5-7-06.jpg

http://grullablue.com/colors/foalcolors ... sorrel.jpg

Of course, some grays are REALLY obvious about it, like so:

http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w65/ ... ayBody.jpg

So it just depends. At this time I don't think Zapit will gray, but he might.
Image



Image

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Fri May 10, 2013 9:49 am

"ZENY-TAP" looks "chestnut" and there is no doubt about that. But at the same time, he sports some kind of SWEET RETURN kind of white hairs here and there. Of course, in a more conservative fashion than this English-bred stallion. But it makes one think: well, what if later he changes his coat color? Well, anyway, in the case of SWEET RETURN he is a bona fide chestnut not a grey.

Take a look to the following pictures:

https://www.facebook.com/ZenyattaOfficial?filter=2

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Picture of SWEET RETURN (Chestnut H 2000) http://www.pedigreequery.com/sweet+return

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Fri May 10, 2013 9:56 am

Jorge wrote:"ZENY-TAP" looks "chestnut" and there is no doubt about that. But at the same time, he sports some kind of SWEET RETURN kind of white hairs here and there. Of course, in a more conservative fashion than this English-bred stallion. But it makes one think: well, what if later he changes his coat color? Well, anyway, in the case of SWEET RETURN he is a bona fide chestnut not a grey.

Take a look to the following pictures:

https://www.facebook.com/ZenyattaOfficial?filter=2

----------------------------------------------------------------------
Picture of SWEET RETURN (Chestnut H 2000) http://www.pedigreequery.com/sweet+return



Picture of SWEET RETURN: http://www.google.com.pr/search?hl=es-4 ... return-(gb)-112.html%3B700%3B559

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Sun May 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Hmm, take look at the latest photo of the Tapit--Zenyatta's 2013 foal:

http://www.zenyatta.com/site/wp-content ... 20x439.jpg

erhrdt3
Starters Handicap
Posts: 684
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 11:52 am
Location: NE IL

Postby erhrdt3 » Sun May 19, 2013 7:43 pm

Jorge, what do you think about that one?? We had two chestnut/white blazed foals, and they did not have the coloring around the eyes and mouth like that.

And wow, Zenyatta sure has changed... :shock: :(
We will NEVER see another Ruffian......

User avatar
accphotography
Restricted Stakes Winner
Posts: 996
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2008 12:03 am

Postby accphotography » Sun May 19, 2013 9:33 pm

That's a pretty normal first shed for a chestnut.

Neither of these have a gray parent:

Image

Image

What do you mean about Zenyatta looking different? I thinks he looks amazing!!
Image



Image

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Mon May 20, 2013 8:44 am

Right at this instance, I cannot say that "Tapit-Zeny" will become a "gray"
(40%?) or a "chestnut" (60%?). Some white areas around his mouth looks relatively auspicious but all we can do is wait for a better time running and, very important, best photogrphs, because we haven't seen very recent whole-body close-up photos.

User avatar
Jorge
Moderator
Posts: 6234
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 4:48 pm

Postby Jorge » Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:44 pm

Any additional information on this 2014 colt by Tapit?

http://www.pedigreequery.com/grace+for+tapit