Back to Pedigree Query
It is currently Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:15 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
Author Message
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 7:55 am 
Offline
Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:28 am
Posts: 122
Into Mischief has produced a couple of real nice dirt runners in Goldenscents and Vicars in Trouble but it is early to really judge him as a quality sire. He hasn't done much with 2 year olds other than Goldenscents and hasn't had any good turfers yet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2014 8:07 am 
Offline
Maiden Special Weight

Joined: Sun Aug 24, 2014 11:28 am
Posts: 122
I like First Samurai at $15,000 a lot-he is a pretty well rounded sire. Midnite Lute is on the improve as a young stallion but needs to show that he can produce quality 2 year olds and turf runners. Curlin is on the come and getting him now is value.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 3:59 pm 
Offline
Breeder's Cup Contender

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 1771
First Samurai and his barnmate Flatter are producing good running horses. Flatter has 9 SW this year alone, and he's really improving the mares he sees. First Samurai runners tend to have a bit more class (more SW, more graded) but he also saw a LOT better mares than Flatter did, especially in their respective first few crops.

Bellamy Road is doing a nice job. He's a bit hit-or-miss but when he hits, he hits. They take a bit of time (late 3 they turn it on) but they tend to be sound and run through their conditions.

In New York, Freud and Frost Giant are standing head and shoulders above everybody else.

Successful Appeal at $10k is a LOT of horse. So is Yes It's True.

For the right mare, Forestry at $8000 is a good deal. But he needs a pretty specific kind of mare.

And at $7500, Awesome Of Course is doing everything right, even without Awesome Feather's accomplishments. I'd far rather take him at $7500 than Bluegrass Cat.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2014 10:54 pm 
Offline
Grade III Winner
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 3:45 am
Posts: 1040
Location: Idaho Falls, Idaho
Langfhur $7500
Pleasantly Perfected $5,000
Include $12,500


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 1:08 pm 
Offline
Leading Sire
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 12:45 pm
Posts: 3577
Location: Spokane, WA
I like many of those mentioned. Midnight Lute is a particular favorite and I'm crossing my fingers for Temple City.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Aug 11, 2018 1:55 pm 
Offline
Eclipse Champion

Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2005 2:34 pm
Posts: 2295
I always love an opportunity to talk about Jump Start, another talented SW for him today with Sue’s Fortune.
I would love to see our top 5 under $25,000 sires now!

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing ... adirondack


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:04 pm 
Offline
Grade I Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:33 pm
Posts: 1503
Birdstone - giveaway price for a horse that can sire classic horses.

jm

_________________
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 7:55 am 
Offline
Moderator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:53 pm
Posts: 9630
Location: Louisville, KY
Birdstone is an interesting horse. But I think his best ones were very early in his career. He started at $10K and did not go anywhere but down. He is a small horse with a short neck and while I have not seen him in person for many years, I never thought of him as impressive.

A horse I have always admired and loved that has finally fallen into the under $25K is Stormy Atlantic. He is getting "on" and has dropped to $15K 2018. He started, I believe, at $5K in Florida. He earned his way into Kentucky and rose to $35K where he stayed for a Very Long Time. He's a bigger horse with a nicer body type and throws a big butt. He STAMPS his foals. And they seem to run pretty well.

_________________
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 12:25 pm 
Offline
Grade I Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:33 pm
Posts: 1503
madelyn wrote:
Birdstone is an interesting horse. But I think his best ones were very early in his career. He started at $10K and did not go anywhere but down. He is a small horse with a short neck and while I have not seen him in person for many years, I never thought of him as impressive.

A horse I have always admired and loved that has finally fallen into the under $25K is Stormy Atlantic. He is getting "on" and has dropped to $15K 2018. He started, I believe, at $5K in Florida. He earned his way into Kentucky and rose to $35K where he stayed for a Very Long Time. He's a bigger horse with a nicer body type and throws a big butt. He STAMPS his foals. And they seem to run pretty well.


---

That Birdstone could sire Classic runners and winners speaks to a certain quality- but it makes me wonder if breeders may be going the wrong way with him, breeding the wrong kinds of mares to him. It's one of those "If a day had 40 hours" situations, I would love to get a full report on this guy and plot the performance over time. I think as a son of Grindstone, who never got much love, he was destined to get fewer mares, especially quality mares. With Tapit and Empire Maker in the barn - he won't see the top mares with Gainesway connections.

Did the arrival of the top performers help him get more/better mares? Kinda sorta. He's sired less than 600 foals. 4%SW. In his best year getting more mares (after the first crop crushed it) he still only had 83 foals, yet with the better mares that crop got 6% SW, but still a fall off in mares/foals after that. Down to about 20 a year now. Might get lightning in a bottle with him, with the right one.

You've got me into Stormy Atlantic's fan club Madelyn :)

_________________
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Aug 19, 2018 1:57 pm 
Offline
Grade II Winner

Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2007 5:28 pm
Posts: 1266
For a small fee you can get copies of the book of mares the stallion covered as well as who the mare was bred back to. That was useful to me when I asked the farm if I could switch the stallion my mare was booked to when the stallion wasn't getting her in foal (this one never did seem to have many early foals). Fortunately they said yes. You can also see who the breeders are of the foals so you can tell which one's are foal shares, etc.

In regards to Birdstone, my friend who was with me really liked him because, even though he is small, he's nicely put together. He's proven he can sire large so it's not just his size that's scared people off....

The real answer is that it's not fashionable to breed to proven stallions with low stud fees. It's also not fashionable to breed to unproven for <20K and I find it hard to believe that there aren't any of those who don't sire foals that are as good or better looking than the ones sired by ones with a higher stud fee. There's way too much supply even with a crop of 22K. The super trainers and super syndicates have removed a number of people who might, in years past, have been willing to take that same amount and bought a few lower priced ones and sent them to a smaller trainer.

And for the new owner's who do come in on their own, they are after the million + yearling colt who has residual value as a stallion. For all that yearling's possible conformation faults, if they are precocious get them to the races, get the wins and then retire them when they can't hold up to training. There's already demand the minute they win that first stakes race.

If you're breed to race, and you have a mare that crosses well with that line, he's a good deal and maybe even free. I thought I saw somewhere that was the case?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:45 pm 
Offline
Grade I Winner
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 5:33 pm
Posts: 1503
In my 40 hour day, I would just do a statistical analysis of as much data as possible to see what breeders thought was a good match. Sometimes I think with breeding, the patterns are all wrong. So I don't know why they do what they do - beyond nicks - but maybe a pattern would emerge as to what really works and what doesn't and it's not immediately evident. I wonder, for example, why a great mare like Silverbulletday never threw a really good runner, but three of her daughters already have stakes runners. The experts say it 'skipped a generation', but I'm thinking they simply bred to the wrong sires.

Yes, Tap, the middle market of the bizarre stud fee marketplace seems to have little to do with actual quality or performance, but more is based on effective marketing hype. A Birdstone in the shadow of Tapit has no chance really. Few people value the sire who 'improves' his mares. But when it comes to hype, American Pharaoh will set new standards - at least until we find where the magnificent specimens can actually run.

jm

_________________
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group