Unbridled's Song as a sire of sires

[Cree]

This is me just mulling something over.
I just saw that Old Fashioned has been sent to South Korea, and Zensational to Argentina. Dunkirk is now in Japan.

So far Unbridled's Song hasn't been a standout sire of sires, they haven't been bad, just not like him...but in the last 2 years, 4 of his best sons have retired - Will Take Charge, Graydar, Cross Traffic, and Liam's Map.

Of the 4, who do you think has a chance to "make" it?

[geowarrior]

I don't know about the four you mention, I'd have to think about it, but I don't really think either Old Fashioned or Zensational got enough time to prove themselves before they were sold abroad.

[ct2346]

I'm about to foal a Cross Traffic, and am breeding backing to him in the next couple of weeks.
I guess that tells you who I'm voting for. He's out of a Cure the Blues. I figure an UBS oo Cure the Blues
should set me up good for all the mud racing that we'll get as a result of climate change.

[Cree]

Great answer!
Good luck with the foal and the next breeding. I am partial to Cross Traffic too. He has a very interesting female family, and I do like seeing Cure the Blues in there.

[Patuxet]

Over the years Moderator Madelyn has consistently posted caveats about breeding to sons of Unbridled's Song, citing unsoundness in his line. I'd be interested to hear what rationale breeders here have employed when deciding to breed counter to Madelyn's practical advice.

[ct2346]

Over the years Moderator Madelyn has consistently posted caveats about breeding to sons of Unbridled's Song, citing unsoundness in his line. I'd be interested to hear what rationale breeders here have employed when deciding to breed counter to Madelyn's practical advice.

I've never been a fan of generalizations - certainly not of those without very specific statistics to back them up. Breeding is a business of putting your money where your mouth is. Not where someone else's is.

[da hossman]

Everyone in the business has been burned by one or more son of Unbridled Song, soundness is always the issue - his most successful son would be either First Defence or Even The Score (libido issues). Midshipman has proven useful, and it is early in his career so he could surpass First Defence or Even The Score. The list of failed sons is huge - Buddha, Domestic Dispute, Half Ours, Zensational, Political Force, Old Fashioned, Eurosilver, etc.

I think one would have to consider Will Take Charge to be US' best chance as WTC raced quite a bit more than most US horses - 21 starts 7 wins 6 places 1 show $3,924,648 earnings. WTC ran as a 2yo, 3yo and 4yo. Lost the Breeders Cup Classic by a nose as a 3yo to an older horse. Big, strong and sound enough to stand up to Lukas' training.

Cross Traffic did not run until 4 and only made 6 starts. Graydar did not run at 2 and also made only 6 starts. Liam's Map also did not run at 2 and while very talented, made only 8 starts.

[dublino]

Liams Map is the next sire sensation.

[kimberley mine]

First Defence's BH ad kind of says it all:

BRED TO THE BEST BOOK OF MARES BY CPI OF ANY STALLION IN HIS STUD FEE RANGE IN 2015 – 4.64 CPI

This is a $7500 stallion out of one of the best female families in the US stud book. His best foal is out of a Storm Cat mare from the Best in Show family whose 2nd dam is a full sister to Xaar and three other stakes winners. His second best foal is out of a full sister to Danehill. His three other graded winners--all Gr-3 only--are useful runners from mostly-fading branches of their families (another from the same Best in Show branch, one from Argentine champion Taba, and one descended from the exceptional racemare All at Sea who has so far failed to produce on even 3 generations later). He SHOULD be getting good horses from mares like those, even if they're from fading branches of the families.

Moving on, I do note the following: both Midshipman and First Defence are out of Seattle Slew-line mares. Two of First Defence's top 10 earners are linebred to Slew within 5 generations, and five of Midshipman's top 10 earners, including 3 of his 6 stakes winners, are linebred to Seattle Slew through five generations.

Interestingly, Midshipman's son Yiannis (also in his top ten) has Concorde's Tune as the sire of his second dam....Concorde's Tune is a grandson of Seattle Slew's sire Bold Reasoning out of a mare by Herbager-line Tunerup. The filly All Star Bub's second dam is by Slewvescent, by Seattle Slew out of champion Herbager daughter Our Mims. Also interesting is that his useful allowance-class filly Ensign Eli is out of a mare by Monashee Mountain, a Danzig son of Prospector's Delite, whose second dam The Garden Club (by Herbager) is one of THE most important strains for Seattle Slew out there, no matter where she appears in the pedigree (example: Lava Man). This suggests to me that not only is Seattle Slew a key strain for Midshipman, but perhaps THE key strain, and Seattle Slew and Herbager together (such as through Rahy) might work very well.

And that leads to the observation that Lucky Pulpit is out of a 3/4 sister to the dam of Unbridled's Song....and four of his top ten runners are also linebred to Seattle Slew. I'm very curious to see how Chrome will do with Tiznow mares....

[hpkingjr]

Midshipman had another MSW winner on 3-6-16. Just Talkin.
KM scores again, linebred to Slew. http://www.pedigreequery.com/just+talkin