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 Post subject: Paynter
PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2018 7:32 am 
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I've still got that gorgeous Paynter boy I picked at KEEJAN, recently gelded, and out of interest pulled data on Paynter. I wonder how much the Jockey Club's new mare fee is playing into reporting since the stallion reporter must pay $35 per mare covered. Anyhow, when Paynter started out, year 1 he is reported to have covered 158 mares (2015). Year 2 153 mares (2016). Year 3 103 mares (2017 the first year of the $35 fee). In 2018 he got 34 (!?!). I have not paid enormous attention to recent sire stats but to me his live foal to cover ratio seems kind of low for such a young horse.

Something interesting I found out is that the veterinary practice rules have apparently changed since AP Indy had that retained testicle removed at 3 and went on to be a successful racehorse and sire. That is no longer allowed - I've been told that if they take out the one inside they have to take the one outside also since cryptorchidism is a heritable trait. I wonder how many Paynter's, like mine, were cryptorchid and if that is playing into decision to breed. Indeed I wonder what effect that will have on the AP Indy sire line, since his sons and grandsons can also apparently pass the trait.

Anyone got any input on this?

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:31 pm 
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I’ve seen quite a few unilateral crypts come through my surgery doors… a few of them are very recent names most would recognize. Took the undecended one, left the decended intact. Went on with their racing careers and a handful are stallions now.

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 8:15 am 
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That is interesting. Since the cryptorchidism is an inherited trait, and considered a negative trait, does the stallion farm have to disclose that the stallion it is standing was a crypt and only has the one testicle?

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:17 am 
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You know, I don’t really know? I just went and looked on each of their stallion register pages and it is not mentioned. I suppose if you asked the farm they would tell you… but I don’t know how many, while looking at prospective stallions, would have that on their list of top five questions? I will ask the ones I know and report back…

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 9:32 am 
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So, they don’t disclose it unless you ask. They were, however, listed as ridglings during their racing career.

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 11:08 am 
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Interesting. I would think, as I said it is a heritable trait, that breeders might want to know if they might end up with a rig colt.

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 6:47 am 
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Is it really that undesirable to have one?
I just wonder because if it is inherited, the sire line (AP Indy) is popular and produces very well - good racehorses and good stallions. What’s the downside?


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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Mon Jan 21, 2019 8:47 am 
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It can affect fertility and it can cause enough discomfort to the horse that it needs to be gelded. That's what happened to Evening Attire and Funny Cide.


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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:30 am 
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Not to be inappropriate, but as picky as breeders are when looking at stallions, how could they miss that? You don't even have to look that close to spot them they are usually easily visible from a few feet away. If it's on the far side then when the stallion is walking they should be visible as well and if it's a discerning breeder and it's an AP Indy and most are aware that it's inherited they should be looking at that and making a decision that way. Then again since most are willing to overlook physical issues than maybe this one really doesn't bother anyone enough for it to be a deal breaker. It doesn't stop buyers from spending seven figures either.


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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:27 am 
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I'm not sure how many breeders actually inspect the horses they send mares to.

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 10:55 am 
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Is it straight inherited(the sire has to show as a crypto) or can it skip a generation, I've never looked it up.


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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:05 pm 
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mehile wrote:
Is it straight inherited(the sire has to show as a crypto) or can it skip a generation, I've never looked it up.


Both. The mare Weekend Surprise foaled multiple ridglings, notably AP Indy and Summer Squall. AP Indy in turn sired several ridglings, including successful racehorse and now-stallion Honor Code.


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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:18 pm 
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It must be a jelly bean jar gene - ie could pop up here or there. I just noticed Misremembered is listed as a ridgling and to my knowledge Candy Ride is not. Perhaps it is just More Likely to get a rig colt from a rig stallion.

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 Post subject: Re: Paynter
PostPosted: Thu Jan 24, 2019 11:44 am 
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Slew O'Gold was a ridgling too and I recall seeing some of his sons that were as well.

I seem to recall there is a third stallion son of Seattle Slew's who was one as well. I don't remember if it was Capote or not.

In regards to Candy Ride, I definitely saw two when I saw him out at Land's End. I always take a lot of pictures and videos and then watch them later and that's when I look over their legs, etc.


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