WHO's HOT in CALIFORNIA ????

[BJL]

Well for one people are not afraid to talk about sires in Kentucky. What are their faults? who would make good broodmare sires and such. How about California sires ? haven't really heard much talk about them. I cannot afford to go to Kentucky or Florida to breed, I'm pretty much stuck here with a limited budget. So I want to know who's HOT here ?

[BJL]

I am going to bed now so I will checked responses after I feed the horses tomorrow. Goodnight

[louis finochio]

In Excess, Siberian Summer, Unusual Heat, Cees Tizzy, Souvenir Copy, Roar, General Meeting, Benchmark, Swiss Yodeler, and Bertrando.

[Sysonby]

Hmmm, your definition of hot must be different than mine on some of these sires:

Bertrando is down to $12,500 after a high of $25,000 because he hasn't had a major SW in about 2 years.

General Meeting is down to $10,000 after a high of $30,000 because of a relative paucity of SWs and very few that weren't Golden Eagle homebreds. I understand that they are limiting his book so if you are interested in him, you better book soon.

Swiss Yodeler is down to $5000 from $7500 last year. Lots of winners especially at 5 1/2 furlongs or less.

Cees Tizzy is now "private" after being $15,000 for years. I haven't inquired but I can't imagine that his fee isn't lower than that. Have you seen his sales results lately?

Benchmark is static at $7500 but I'd like to see a headliner at the sales or the track that wasn't bred by the Wygods. Ditto with Souvenir Copy and the Mabees.

In Excess is the grand old man and most clearly the one who can get you the big horse year after year. Musical Chimes notwithstanding, he's had an unusually bad year this year.

The horses clearly on the upswing are Roar, Unusual Heat, Siberian Summer and one that is not on your list, Muqtarib.

[Sandi in Florida]

BJL--I definitely think you should breed everything you have to Siberian Summer. Without a doubt.

[BJL]

SANDI -- I am thinking of breeding one of my mares to him. But i'm not sure what his stud fee is for next year ? maybe Michael can tell us, I heard it was going up. I have had friends complain about sending mares with foals to Creston and having them come back looking really bad. I might be better off buying one and putting it in training. Lots to think about.

Good evaluation Sysonby on those sires.

[fastappy]

I think Roar is a very nice horse, but at 15K I would say too high for a horse who leading earner, (Roar Emotion) has 595,490 in earnings. Keep in mind the horse is a dual hemisphere stallion, which accounts for the higher earnings and stakes winners.

Lifetime Avg Strt Current earning strt Median lifetime strt

Roar 15K 34,997 18,339 11,415

Helmsman 5k 47,192 19,064 22,973

Lit de Justice5k 49,743 20,257 20,888

Siberian Sum6k 33,613 23,145 8,855

Cobra King 5k 40,944 15,212 17,683

Cee's Tizzy Prvt 85,783 13,868 17,083


In Roar's defense, Roar has the highest avg yearling price of $45,832, which is excellent for a breed to run state (Cal).

With 490 foals of racing age Roar's leading earner with $595K compared to Cobra King (183 foals of RA) $528K, Siberian (175 foals of RA) $898K, Helmsman (154 foals of RA)$759K, Lit De Justice (258 foals of RA) $438K, & Cee's (453 foals of RA) $6,427K. The question is will Roar get you the big horse like General Meeting, Cee's Tizzy, Future Storm, Smokester, In Excess, & Bertrando.

[Tairaterces]

Creston had an advertisement in the DRF for Cal Cup and if Siberian Summer is booked by 12/31/04 the fee will be $6K. (I don't have the DRF in hand now but I'm pretty sure that is what it said.)

T

[Sysonby]

Fastappy I think you touched on something that does matter to some breeders. When some people hear Smokester and Cee's Tizzy, they reflexively think Free House and Tiznow. Others think of all the maiden claimers by those two they seeing running at the fairs. Sure, anyone can hit the lottery but what are the odds it will be you?

One thing I've noticed about Roar in comparison with several other stallions I have on Stablemail is both the lack of the big horse and also the relative high quality of the rest. He has a number of runners that seem to regularly put $10-20,000 in the bank. When you have enough runners doing that, it adds up to real money, which explains why he number one right now in the state.

But, at least in California, once you get in that 5 figure realm for a stud fee, people are buying dreams and they have short memories. He is the safe conservative choice now but will he get you a big score on the track or in the salesring? That remains to be seen.

[fastappy]

Sysonby, exactly! Despite what we all may say, the reality is that we secretly or overtly want to breed the big horse. Some of those stallions can get you the big horse, but most can not. Siberian Summer has not been getting the best of mares (California books) and yet has thrown quality graded stakes winners such as Summer Wind Dancer and Dream of Summer. Cobra King has thrown a G1 (turf) winner from 183 foals of RA. Both were standing for 5k. For 15K I expect the stallion can throw the big one. The vast majority of horses are going to be claimers, but you still want to get the best bang for your buck.

At 7,500 Devil His Due produced Roses In May $923,277, At 10K; Petionville produced, Fashion Island $525K, Alphabet Soup at 10K produced Our New Recruit 1,018,795, Halo's Image at 7K produced Southern Image $1,612,150, Successful Appeal, etc. etc.

I'm taking one of my mares to Siberian Summer, because he looks to be a good value for breeding to run. I'm not impressed with the sales average of $11,767 for his yearlings, but then California is a breed to run state for yearlings.

So for 15K, I want a stallion that can get the big horse even if the likelyhood of actually breeding the horse is slim. Smokester may be a fluke, but Cee's Tizzy, General Meeting, Bertrando, & In Excess have gotten top quality horses repeatedly. If he can't do it in the 1st 400, I'm not sure 15K is a realistic price unless you can reasonably recoup expenses in the sales ring.

[Michael]

BJL=Edie


Hell will freeze over before you are allowed to breed to my stallion, or even allowed on the farm. That's a promise.

[BJL]

BJL = Edie ( Edie who ? )

No BJL = Barbara
Michael = Your a lying fool

Roguelet please do something about Michael and his continueing to put people down. How long do we have to indure Sam and him always trying to ruffle peoples feathers. Why are they allowed to be so rude and attacking and yet the rules do not apply to them. WHY? Oh yeah money talks!

Michael after your rude remarks to me and others on this board and from what I have heard from many. I agree with Kim. I wouldn't breed to your stallion if he was FREE. Word is you do not pay your bills and have not signed peoples stallion certificates for no other reason than you are a jerk.
Your remarks on this board just prove you have no class. You have made so many enemies in this industry.

Fastappy I would seriously think twice before breeding to this SHYSTERS stallion, all you are doing is asking for trouble. To bad he is the one who owns him. The stallion and this industry deserve better.

[BJL]

MICHAEL,
I doubt seriously you have any control who goes on any farm. I know Art personally wouldn't be a problem. But I know many farms who won't allow you on. Creston must have some heavy contract on you for them to even think of dealing with your kind.

[John]

GOOD ONE BJL

HE IS SO WELL LIKED ISN'T HE

WHAT A JOKE HE IS

PRETTY SOON THE WHOLE WORLD WILL KNOW

[Sandi in Florida]

Michael--it was a joke! We all know who BJL/John is, DON'T WE?????

Here's what I was thinking you could do--have "BJL" bring all her mares over to be bred by SS, BUT switch SS out for the biggest long-eared jackass you can find. You then have about 350 days to hide somewhere you can watch the fireworks from afar--when that first big-eared baby pops out, there's gonna be screamin heard from CA to NY!!!! Hehehehe