I am retiring a Quiet American mare with a pretty nice page in the next month or so with the plans of hitting the breeding shed with her next year. We are looking for a KY sire that is not too too expensive that will leave us the option to sell. I went to visit Mingun last week as a possible choice and right now I would have to say he would be a top choice. Could really use opinions though.
Mare is Mercedario (16 hands) by Quiet American - Cabochon by Deputy Minister
Thanks.
Advice needed for QA mare
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
Mingun doesn't have much of a race record. Digit visited AP Indy twice, no cigar.
The strong Mr. Prospector in Mercedario's pedigree seems to suggest Storm Cat to me.. and there are a few reasonably priced sons of his that might fill the bill. And there is Fall Fashion there under Digit to help the catalog page along if you end up selling the foal...
The strong Mr. Prospector in Mercedario's pedigree seems to suggest Storm Cat to me.. and there are a few reasonably priced sons of his that might fill the bill. And there is Fall Fashion there under Digit to help the catalog page along if you end up selling the foal...
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
madelyn wrote:The strong Mr. Prospector in Mercedario's pedigree seems to suggest Storm Cat to me.. and there are a few reasonably priced sons of his that might fill the bill.
Spell Binder, Congressionalhonor, Ugo Fire are pedigrees to look at.
Flying Glitter and Two Trail Sioux if you like something in a nasrullah pattern
I also found Lunarpal through an In Reality sire line.
Possibly one of the Storm Cat sons or Glitterman will meet your budget.
Birdstone is there too, but twice the price of his sire.
JonR
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These two are on the high end but on paper look decent:
Orientate Look how Mt Livermore has done with Dr Fager genetic siblings. Quiet American has 2 foals out of Mt Livermore mares in the database, and both have made over $100k earnings. QA also has one foal out of a Housebuster mare, Josh's Madelyn, who has earned over $350,000.
This probably isn't a good year to breed to Orientate if you are looking to sell, but all else considered I think he's worth watching for your mare.
Officer He will bring in the proven Fappiano/In Reality cross, and already has several winners bred on that cross. Look at
this filly's pedigree and compare to the hypo with your mare. Commercially hot as fire right now.
If you were looking at Mingun ($7500) both of the above might be out of your range, so you might look into a foal share or partnership if you like them.
Orientate Look how Mt Livermore has done with Dr Fager genetic siblings. Quiet American has 2 foals out of Mt Livermore mares in the database, and both have made over $100k earnings. QA also has one foal out of a Housebuster mare, Josh's Madelyn, who has earned over $350,000.
This probably isn't a good year to breed to Orientate if you are looking to sell, but all else considered I think he's worth watching for your mare.
Officer He will bring in the proven Fappiano/In Reality cross, and already has several winners bred on that cross. Look at
this filly's pedigree and compare to the hypo with your mare. Commercially hot as fire right now.
If you were looking at Mingun ($7500) both of the above might be out of your range, so you might look into a foal share or partnership if you like them.
ragsdaj1 wrote:madelyn wrote:The strong Mr. Prospector in Mercedario's pedigree seems to suggest Storm Cat to me.. and there are a few reasonably priced sons of his that might fill the bill.
Spell Binder, Congressionalhonor, Ugo Fire are pedigrees to look at.
I think JonR means the 2003 Spellbinder. Congressionalhonor is by Forestry (out of the $ range) but another example of a similar horse to Fall Fashion. I couldn't find a horse named Ugo Fire that was similar in any way to these...
One VERY interesting horse for this mare is Consolidator who is at Darley. His fee is quite a bit higher, but I have found Darley very good to work with for foal sharing.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Thank you all for your suggestions. I am kindof "off" of Orientate, having looked at his foals at three or four sales over the last year. I am probably in the minority on Officer in that I believe he will slow down as his foals get older. For some reason, I see a parallel with City Zip...
With Mingun, I was going for the superior BM inbreeding (Special is tail female in this mare's pedigree)...and the AP Indy - Quiet American cross has produced you-know-who, and several others. The Digit comment, Madeline, is a bit of a downer though...
Consolidator is an interesting choice, although costing a bit more than what is in the back pocket....but I can see from the info that you and JonR have provided that the Storm Cat line is a good one to consider. As a result I may consider Freud (the mare is in NY now) and save a ship fee and get a NY bred to boot.
Thanks once again.
With Mingun, I was going for the superior BM inbreeding (Special is tail female in this mare's pedigree)...and the AP Indy - Quiet American cross has produced you-know-who, and several others. The Digit comment, Madeline, is a bit of a downer though...
Consolidator is an interesting choice, although costing a bit more than what is in the back pocket....but I can see from the info that you and JonR have provided that the Storm Cat line is a good one to consider. As a result I may consider Freud (the mare is in NY now) and save a ship fee and get a NY bred to boot.
Thanks once again.
Sweetsouthernsaint
Sweetsouthernsaint would make an interesting cross as you remember the Saint Ballado x Quiet American cross that produced Saint Liam. Your mare has lots of Mr. Prospector and Nearctic bloodlines and you need somewhat of an outcross.
Honour And Glory could make a nice cross
linebreeding Grand Splendor 4x5 and Cequillo 5x5x6
Keyed Entry is 5x5 Grand Splendor
You may also consider a son of Honour and Glory such as
Put It Back
Delaware Township is crossing well on Fappiano line mares but do you
do you want to bring another line of Northern Dancer through Sunny North.
Stroll being a son of Pulpit may also be an option as his bottom side brings somewhat of an outcross.
St. Averil a son of Saint Ballado in Maryland could make a nice cross for your mare.
I would look for a stallion with the bloodlines of Weekend Surprise, Ballade,Cosmah, or Glorious Song.
Keith
Honour And Glory could make a nice cross
linebreeding Grand Splendor 4x5 and Cequillo 5x5x6
Keyed Entry is 5x5 Grand Splendor
You may also consider a son of Honour and Glory such as
Put It Back
Delaware Township is crossing well on Fappiano line mares but do you
do you want to bring another line of Northern Dancer through Sunny North.
Stroll being a son of Pulpit may also be an option as his bottom side brings somewhat of an outcross.
St. Averil a son of Saint Ballado in Maryland could make a nice cross for your mare.
I would look for a stallion with the bloodlines of Weekend Surprise, Ballade,Cosmah, or Glorious Song.
Keith
Aha.. the mare is in New York...
Freud looks like a really good matchup.. you could also take a look at Roaring Fever. Best of luck!
Regarding Digit.. one of the things I do when looking for a potential mating for a mare is check the female family for things that have NOT worked out. Here is Digit's APR:
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006
DIGIT, 1993, Forty Niner- Number by Nijinsky 2nd.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1997 Gunner,Dkbbr,c,Broad Brush 4 8 0 1 1 6,468 ( 74) 0.36
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 74)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 76 ( 65)
North America Dirt Routes 4 0 1 1 6,392 ( 72)
DP = 9-16-21-2-2 DI = 2.45 CD = 0.56
1998 Cabochon,Ch,f,Deputy Minister Unraced
DP = 7-0-10-2-1 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.50
1999 Indyfault,Ch,f,A.P. Indy 2 8 1 1 1 37,910 ( 85) 1.54
North America 2 YO Record 4 1 1 1 37,910 ( 85)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 69)
North America Dirt Sprints 5 0 1 1 12,710 ( 85)
North America Dirt Routes 2 1 0 0 25,200 ( 83)
DP = 10-3-16-2-1 DI = 1.91 CD = 0.59 AWD = 8.00
2000 Arturo,Dk B/,c,A.P. Indy 2 8 2 2 1 73,580 (102) 3.61
North America Dirt Sprints 2 0 1 0 8,600 ( 85)
North America Dirt Routes 6 2 1 1 64,980 (102)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 85)
DP = 10-3-16-2-1 DI = 1.91 CD = 0.59 AWD = 8.25
2001 FALL FASHION,Ch,f,Forestry 3 15 3 2 3 106,995 ( 98) 2.57
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 1 1 18,200 ( 79)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 300 ( 78)
North America Dirt Sprints 9 2 1 2 70,494 ( 98)
North America Dirt Routes 5 1 1 1 36,200 ( 94)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 5,078 ( 90)
DP = 6-7-12-2-1 DI = 2.11 CD = 0.54 AWD = 7.00
At 3 Won Charon S. (O) (53,500), 2nd Suncoast S. (O) (60,000), 3rd Adena
Stallions' Miss Preakness S. -G3 (100,000), Revidere S. (O) (60,000)
2002 Fast Eddie Charles,B,g,Stravinsky 2 21 5 3 2 55,745 ( 92) 0.88
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 0 1 7,085 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 16 4 3 2 42,725 ( 89)
North America Dirt Routes 5 1 0 0 13,020 ( 92)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 0 11,570 ( 92)
DP = 10-0-23-2-1 DI = 1.48 CD = 0.44 AWD = 6.40
2003 Coro,Dk B/,c,Dynaformer Unraced
DP = 8-2-26-2-2 DI = 1.35 CD = 0.30
SIRE 2.38 Spi, 608str, 32%2yo, 12%1st, 13%Mud/999sts, 14%Tf/999sts, AWD 8.3
DAM(ur) 1.79 Dpi, 3 2yostr/3wnr, 17%Mud/6sts, 3 Tfstr/0wnr, 5 Rtestr/4wnr, AWD 7.0
2004 Like Royalty,Ch,f,El Prado (Ire) Unraced
DP = 7-4-18-6-1 DI = 1.25 CD = 0.28
SIRE 2.50 Spi, 469str, 37%2yo, 10%1st, 16%Mud/848sts, 13%Tf/999sts, AWD 7.4
DAM(ur) 1.79 Dpi, 3 2yostr/3wnr, 17%Mud/6sts, 3 Tfstr/0wnr, 5 Rtestr/4wnr, AWD 7.0
2005 Levinson,c,Deputy Commander
DP = 6-1-10-2-1 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.45
Here is Cabochon:
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006
CABOCHON, 1998, Deputy Minister- Digit by Forty Niner.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
2002 Cash Exchange,B,g,Pleasant Tap 1 6 1 1 1 13,550 ( 84) 0.98
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 190 ( 68)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 1 1,320 ( 70)
North America Dirt Routes 4 1 1 0 12,040 ( 84)
DP = 3-9-10-3-3 DI = 1.55 CD = 0.21 AWD = 8.32
2003 Mercedario,B,f,Quiet American 1 1 1 0 0 7,200 ( 76) 2.11
North America 2 YO Record * 1 1 0 0 7,200 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 1 0 0 7,200 ( 76)
DP = 7-10-10-1-0 DI = 3.67 CD = 0.82 AWD = 5.50
SIRE 1.97 Spi, 422str, 33%2yo, 7%1st, 17%Mud/830sts, 10%Tf/999sts, AWD 7.5
DAM(ur) 0.98 Dpi, 1 2yostr/1wnr, 0%Mud/0sts, 1 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/1wnr, AWD 6.9
2004 Timechon,Ch,f,Gilded Time Unraced
DP = 7-5-6-2-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.85
SIRE 1.64 Spi, 488str, 43%2yo, 11%1st, 15%Mud/783sts, 9%Tf/999sts, AWD 6.5
DAM(ur) 0.98 Dpi, 1 2yostr/1wnr, 0%Mud/0sts, 1 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/1wnr, AWD 6.9
2005 Unnamed,f,Distant View
DP = 10-3-12-1-0 DI = 2.71 CD = 0.85
Granted, they are both relatively young mares. But you have to ask yourself if sending Digit to AP Indy twice, to get Arturo and Indy Fault, means something, when the same mare went to Forestry and got Fall Fashion.
Freud looks like a really good matchup.. you could also take a look at Roaring Fever. Best of luck!
Regarding Digit.. one of the things I do when looking for a potential mating for a mare is check the female family for things that have NOT worked out. Here is Digit's APR:
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006
DIGIT, 1993, Forty Niner- Number by Nijinsky 2nd.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1997 Gunner,Dkbbr,c,Broad Brush 4 8 0 1 1 6,468 ( 74) 0.36
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 74)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 0 0 0 76 ( 65)
North America Dirt Routes 4 0 1 1 6,392 ( 72)
DP = 9-16-21-2-2 DI = 2.45 CD = 0.56
1998 Cabochon,Ch,f,Deputy Minister Unraced
DP = 7-0-10-2-1 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.50
1999 Indyfault,Ch,f,A.P. Indy 2 8 1 1 1 37,910 ( 85) 1.54
North America 2 YO Record 4 1 1 1 37,910 ( 85)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 69)
North America Dirt Sprints 5 0 1 1 12,710 ( 85)
North America Dirt Routes 2 1 0 0 25,200 ( 83)
DP = 10-3-16-2-1 DI = 1.91 CD = 0.59 AWD = 8.00
2000 Arturo,Dk B/,c,A.P. Indy 2 8 2 2 1 73,580 (102) 3.61
North America Dirt Sprints 2 0 1 0 8,600 ( 85)
North America Dirt Routes 6 2 1 1 64,980 (102)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 85)
DP = 10-3-16-2-1 DI = 1.91 CD = 0.59 AWD = 8.25
2001 FALL FASHION,Ch,f,Forestry 3 15 3 2 3 106,995 ( 98) 2.57
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 1 1 18,200 ( 79)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 300 ( 78)
North America Dirt Sprints 9 2 1 2 70,494 ( 98)
North America Dirt Routes 5 1 1 1 36,200 ( 94)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 5,078 ( 90)
DP = 6-7-12-2-1 DI = 2.11 CD = 0.54 AWD = 7.00
At 3 Won Charon S. (O) (53,500), 2nd Suncoast S. (O) (60,000), 3rd Adena
Stallions' Miss Preakness S. -G3 (100,000), Revidere S. (O) (60,000)
2002 Fast Eddie Charles,B,g,Stravinsky 2 21 5 3 2 55,745 ( 92) 0.88
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 0 1 7,085 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 16 4 3 2 42,725 ( 89)
North America Dirt Routes 5 1 0 0 13,020 ( 92)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 0 11,570 ( 92)
DP = 10-0-23-2-1 DI = 1.48 CD = 0.44 AWD = 6.40
2003 Coro,Dk B/,c,Dynaformer Unraced
DP = 8-2-26-2-2 DI = 1.35 CD = 0.30
SIRE 2.38 Spi, 608str, 32%2yo, 12%1st, 13%Mud/999sts, 14%Tf/999sts, AWD 8.3
DAM(ur) 1.79 Dpi, 3 2yostr/3wnr, 17%Mud/6sts, 3 Tfstr/0wnr, 5 Rtestr/4wnr, AWD 7.0
2004 Like Royalty,Ch,f,El Prado (Ire) Unraced
DP = 7-4-18-6-1 DI = 1.25 CD = 0.28
SIRE 2.50 Spi, 469str, 37%2yo, 10%1st, 16%Mud/848sts, 13%Tf/999sts, AWD 7.4
DAM(ur) 1.79 Dpi, 3 2yostr/3wnr, 17%Mud/6sts, 3 Tfstr/0wnr, 5 Rtestr/4wnr, AWD 7.0
2005 Levinson,c,Deputy Commander
DP = 6-1-10-2-1 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.45
Here is Cabochon:
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006
CABOCHON, 1998, Deputy Minister- Digit by Forty Niner.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
2002 Cash Exchange,B,g,Pleasant Tap 1 6 1 1 1 13,550 ( 84) 0.98
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 190 ( 68)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 1 1,320 ( 70)
North America Dirt Routes 4 1 1 0 12,040 ( 84)
DP = 3-9-10-3-3 DI = 1.55 CD = 0.21 AWD = 8.32
2003 Mercedario,B,f,Quiet American 1 1 1 0 0 7,200 ( 76) 2.11
North America 2 YO Record * 1 1 0 0 7,200 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 1 0 0 7,200 ( 76)
DP = 7-10-10-1-0 DI = 3.67 CD = 0.82 AWD = 5.50
SIRE 1.97 Spi, 422str, 33%2yo, 7%1st, 17%Mud/830sts, 10%Tf/999sts, AWD 7.5
DAM(ur) 0.98 Dpi, 1 2yostr/1wnr, 0%Mud/0sts, 1 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/1wnr, AWD 6.9
2004 Timechon,Ch,f,Gilded Time Unraced
DP = 7-5-6-2-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.85
SIRE 1.64 Spi, 488str, 43%2yo, 11%1st, 15%Mud/783sts, 9%Tf/999sts, AWD 6.5
DAM(ur) 0.98 Dpi, 1 2yostr/1wnr, 0%Mud/0sts, 1 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/1wnr, AWD 6.9
2005 Unnamed,f,Distant View
DP = 10-3-12-1-0 DI = 2.71 CD = 0.85
Granted, they are both relatively young mares. But you have to ask yourself if sending Digit to AP Indy twice, to get Arturo and Indy Fault, means something, when the same mare went to Forestry and got Fall Fashion.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
You may consider a son of El Prado or Sadler's Wells
You want to line breed on Special you may consider a son of Sadler's Wells or El Prado
Some that come to mind
by Sadler's Wells
Powerscourt
Sligo Bay
Perfect Soul
by El Prado
Artie Schiller
Kitten's Joy
Mr. Livingston
Keith
Some that come to mind
by Sadler's Wells
Powerscourt
Sligo Bay
Perfect Soul
by El Prado
Artie Schiller
Kitten's Joy
Mr. Livingston
Keith
Thank you all for your advice. Keith - I have been eyeing Powerscourt for this reason for some time now. Fair price, good race record. There are times however when fate intervenes. They are moving Anasheed to a farm in NY where I keep some of my mares. He provides the same Special linebreeding that I was hoping for. He is however, points out AP Indy on top. As Medelyn points out this may not be optimal. But, I am making the decision to keep the horse in NY now and will have to debate the Freud vs Anasheed choice. I am really wondering whether the QA introduction on the top of this mare's page will overcome the failings of Digit (when crossed with AP Indy) on the bottom. I really do believe that there is a strong AP Indy - Quiet American cross developing that we are just beginning to see. Its a good thing all of this indecision doesn't creep into the workaday world....