Since it is fantasy time in creating races, how about making a 4 year old Triple Crown with lots of publicity and lots of money. Make it worth it to start racing later, and keep the runners going longer.
Getting a race started can happen, look at how new the Breeders Cup is, and how it has grown in status over the years.
sterner test
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster
I would love to see something like the top 20 nationally ranked older horses invited to race in a 3 race series...with injuries, those who decline, etc that might fill a gate of 10.
It seems so seldom that the very best like to race Each Other!
It seems so seldom that the very best like to race Each Other!
All shouting does is make you lose your voice.
----Arrested Development
----Arrested Development
You reap what you sow and commercial breeding has removed most of the soundness and durabilty from the modern TB racehorse. You can darn near trace the demise back to when it started and that was about 30 years ago when the "big family farms" began dispersing their operations. These family farms were truly committed to raising and racing superior stock and why horses from back then often ran 10 times or so as 2 year olds and another 10 starts or more at 3.
Secretariat ran 21 times in about a 19 month span and was no worse for wear while turning in several incredible performances. His stable mate Riva Ridge, was campaigned equally as a hard and won 2/3s of the TC. Kelso/Forego ran and ran and ran and ran.... you rarely, rarely see that today. The top commercial horses of today are hard pressed to make 10 starts today. I liken the modern TB to "disposable goods" converted to recycling ASAP to make more like them and worse via the breeding shed/farm.
Secretariat ran 21 times in about a 19 month span and was no worse for wear while turning in several incredible performances. His stable mate Riva Ridge, was campaigned equally as a hard and won 2/3s of the TC. Kelso/Forego ran and ran and ran and ran.... you rarely, rarely see that today. The top commercial horses of today are hard pressed to make 10 starts today. I liken the modern TB to "disposable goods" converted to recycling ASAP to make more like them and worse via the breeding shed/farm.
xfactor fan wrote:Since it is fantasy time in creating races, how about making a 4 year old Triple Crown with lots of publicity and lots of money. Make it worth it to start racing later, and keep the runners going longer.
Getting a race started can happen, look at how new the Breeders Cup is, and how it has grown in status over the years.
I don't find waiting til horses are older all that conducive to longevity. If you have a barn full of horses sired and produced by studs and mares that had limited racing careers due to infirmities the genetics are not in your favor no matter the age at which racing starts. Why people think they can breed or buy horses from short lived families and expect different results makes ZERO sense.
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Rokeby Forever
- Darley line
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- Location: Reno, NV
There's nothing wrong with 2 year old racing - if anything, there used to be more of it earlier in the year. Early NY stakes like The Flash, The Youthful, The Great American, and others aren't run any more.
What's wrong is that NOBODY trains for longevity any more. Nobody gallops 2 miles in the morning any more. Most horses gallop 1 1/4 mile and work fast 3 and 4 furlong workouts every 4 or 5 days. There's absolutely no foundation put into horses any more.
My favorite 2006 BC trivia question: Who was the ONLY BC entrant last year that galloped 2 miles three straight mornings?
Answer: Round Pond.
Think about it.
What's wrong is that NOBODY trains for longevity any more. Nobody gallops 2 miles in the morning any more. Most horses gallop 1 1/4 mile and work fast 3 and 4 furlong workouts every 4 or 5 days. There's absolutely no foundation put into horses any more.
My favorite 2006 BC trivia question: Who was the ONLY BC entrant last year that galloped 2 miles three straight mornings?
Answer: Round Pond.
Think about it.
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
Toccet02 wrote:I would love to see something like the top 20 nationally ranked older horses invited to race in a 3 race series...with injuries, those who decline, etc that might fill a gate of 10.
It seems so seldom that the very best like to race Each Other!
thats because many trainers follow the old saying...............keep your self in the best of company and your horses in the worst company.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
oh ...one more thing ....my trainer gallops two miles every morning......and i break his stones about it.........i tell him...if i can run 3-5 miles a day the dang horse can do the same..........i mean really its a horse for crying out loud .....i mean really ..think about it.
A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
reenci wrote:Toccet02 wrote:I would love to see something like the top 20 nationally ranked older horses invited to race in a 3 race series...with injuries, those who decline, etc that might fill a gate of 10.
It seems so seldom that the very best like to race Each Other!
thats because many trainers follow the old saying...............keep your self in the best of company and your horses in the worst company.
well, understood, but maybe that approach should be put aside in the 4th and 5th (I know I'm dreaming totally here) years...parade around looking for easy competition during juvie and triple crown years, but then get serious and face the best. It seems a bit that way now actually. Medaglia D'oro ended up facing better . . .as did Skip Away, etc. And they did well and earned enourmous respect for it. It would be nice if it was more "expected" in the industry.
All shouting does is make you lose your voice.
----Arrested Development
----Arrested Development
yup...your dreamimg 
..........but we can all dream.........right ?....but one thing for sure ,the status quo just is not cutting it.
..........but we can all dream.........right ?....but one thing for sure ,the status quo just is not cutting it.A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
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wilf
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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- Location: Ocala, Florida.
As someone who is very familiar with overseas racing I must tell you that the lead up to the American triple is so gruelling that it's no wonder that few are standing come the 3rd leg! You have all these provincial Derbies and similar stakes to endure from January for pete's sake! In Britain they usually have the one lead up race to the 2000 guineas then 3 weeks to the Derby then July and August to try other stuff at Ascot and Goodwood or wherever until the early fall where the oldest of the classics from a time where a mile and three quarters was not considered to be very long. As far as the great Nijinsky is concerned he was not right going into the ARC with his terrible skin disease and never should have run; his last race was a poor decision indeed! Such a great animal ; what speed for such a giant!
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wallinga
- Restricted Stakes Winner
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Nijinsky also sired two other english derby winners.
I think we do need to start breeding tougher middle distance horses again. It's an age of specialisation. Why not introduce some more non graded racing over a distance to give horses bellow the top echelon an oppurtunity to make some cash and in the process strengthen middle distance sires claims to commerciality.
The english triple crown was won for the first time by Western Australian in 1853 and since then 15 horses have won it.
The american version was obviously won by Sir Barton in 1919 and 10 more won after that.
Thankfully Jim Bolger has announced that Teofilo will have a crack at the crown next year and if he can squeak by the squibs like Dutch Art in the guineas he can perhaps win it.
The age of specialisation has put a big stop to triple crown action, I think the fillies triple crowns are still winnable though
I think we do need to start breeding tougher middle distance horses again. It's an age of specialisation. Why not introduce some more non graded racing over a distance to give horses bellow the top echelon an oppurtunity to make some cash and in the process strengthen middle distance sires claims to commerciality.
The english triple crown was won for the first time by Western Australian in 1853 and since then 15 horses have won it.
The american version was obviously won by Sir Barton in 1919 and 10 more won after that.
Thankfully Jim Bolger has announced that Teofilo will have a crack at the crown next year and if he can squeak by the squibs like Dutch Art in the guineas he can perhaps win it.
The age of specialisation has put a big stop to triple crown action, I think the fillies triple crowns are still winnable though