Bill,
Anybody who owns horses owns just about one more than they can actually afford to feed--spoken from personal experience. Do me one favor. Look at your research, when you have time, and find an example of a blue hen mare who produced a non-productive daughter crossed on what seemed like a great cross. Then figure out how many generations it took the mare line to re-emerge. There's a generational influence here, but I don't know if its the same in different mare lines. Mary
New genetic study (mtDNA)
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Bill from WA
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Hi Mary
I don't know if this one applies, but, Mayonaise (1856) the winner of the 1000 Guineas, was bred to Epsom Derby winner, Blair Athol, producing the less than stellar, Loch Garry. Loch Garry (1875) was bred to the 2000 Guineas winner, and prominant sire Galliard, producing the non-winner, Barmaid (1887). Barmaid, when mated to the 2000 Guineas winner, and top sire St Amant, foaled the conduit mare, Rambling Rose (1909), who was unplaced in 2 starts, and, produced no winners. This female line was virtually dormant until 1938 when Uvira II (Irish Oaks) was foaled. Uvira II was the dam of Missy Baba, who in turn was the dam of 13 foals, 12 of which raced, with all 12 coming home winners. Among Missy Baba's winners were, Sauce Boat, and Raja Baba, and her daughters, Toll Booth and Gay Missile have carried on her excellence. Without this re-emergance we would be without A P Indy, Lemon Drop Kid, Summer Squall, and Weekend Surprise.
Bill
I don't know if this one applies, but, Mayonaise (1856) the winner of the 1000 Guineas, was bred to Epsom Derby winner, Blair Athol, producing the less than stellar, Loch Garry. Loch Garry (1875) was bred to the 2000 Guineas winner, and prominant sire Galliard, producing the non-winner, Barmaid (1887). Barmaid, when mated to the 2000 Guineas winner, and top sire St Amant, foaled the conduit mare, Rambling Rose (1909), who was unplaced in 2 starts, and, produced no winners. This female line was virtually dormant until 1938 when Uvira II (Irish Oaks) was foaled. Uvira II was the dam of Missy Baba, who in turn was the dam of 13 foals, 12 of which raced, with all 12 coming home winners. Among Missy Baba's winners were, Sauce Boat, and Raja Baba, and her daughters, Toll Booth and Gay Missile have carried on her excellence. Without this re-emergance we would be without A P Indy, Lemon Drop Kid, Summer Squall, and Weekend Surprise.
Bill
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes
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mary syers
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Hi Bill and Mary,
I have little knowledge about mtDNA and apologize if I am not correct in my terminology.
My PC has twice locked in writing this response so I hope it’s not a sign
Mary points out that vegetation will pass significantly more traits in their mtDNA than mammals. This makes perfect sense since mammals have far greater ability to change their environment. It stands to reason that simpler, stationary species would need a more secure system to inherit traits to insure that they will survive. A perfect example is the Four O’Clock Flower that gets its’ color from mtDNA that is probably selected (and proven) as the best color to insure their survival in a particular region. In fact, it’s entirely possible (I’m extrapolating) that many different colors of this plant grew in the same area but only a specific color has survived – natural selection that is preserved through mtDNA.
I’m assuming that some if not all of the traits passed in mtDNA would be those that are necessary to the survival of the species. It doesn’t make sense that other traits would need to be passed, and if they were passed it might (would) lead to a stagnation of the gene pool. Perhaps mtDNA has other purposes genetically, but certainly it is an intact method to insure the passing of specific traits. I’m making an assumption that there will also be a trait passed in non mtDNA that has the ability to trigger a change in the mtDNA, perhaps allowing mutation or changes in the mtDNA. This might explain the ability for simpler species like insects to survive cataclysmic catastrophes that have wiped out even dominant species like the dinosaurs.
Mammals can change their environment, are mobile and have a brain and thus need far fewer ‘guaranteed’ traits for survival. In fact, since horses have proliferated throughout most of the world, stagnant traits would seem to be a hindrance.
I’d imagine that the more complex a species gets, the less need there is for mtDNA trait passing, thus humans would have, as Mary points out, very little passed in their mtDNA. I also assume that horses have no less, but perhaps not much more passed in their mtDNA. Humans and horses both share the instinct for ‘fight or flight’ (FOF) and I’m sure that this most basic trait is passed in mtDNA and the implications are mind boggling.
Humans can be courageous or cowards, a direct reflection of their FOF trait passed in mtDNA. Humans can modify their basic reaction with reason so that a person inclined to flee will fight in certain circumstances. The brain of the mammal will modify the basic instinct and humans will have greater ability to change their instinctive behavior than horses based on the ability to reason.
Whereas a difference in FOF in humans may be imperceptible to other humans, that same difference in horses may be far more impacting in a herd animal that even after thousands of years of domestication still reacts many times a day based on FOF.
The differences in FOF between horses may be very subtle but could easily account for many of their racing attributes. What we call gameness, heart, willingness, speed and class may all be affected to a greater or lesser degree by FOF. The potential impact on the success of a family is simply enormous.
The difference in ability to run a specific distance varies in most thoroughbreds by perhaps 10%. If a fast horse runs a mile in 1:34, then a 10% slower horse would run the same mile in 1:43.2. That’s the difference between grade stakes winner and 5K maiden claimer.
If a difference in FOF causes an individual to be just 2% better a race horse, that would equate to 1 length for every furlong raced! Basically, the family that passes this trait would have an 8 length advantage racing a mile. That’s the difference between graded stakes winners and allowance horses. Over time this subtle advantage would mean literally dozens, if not hundreds of additional stakes winners for the female family. It would also stand to reason that the best in this family would have an even more pronounced advantage that would translate to G1 winners and champions. Without question many other factors, like conformation, athleticism, etc. come into play, but assuming that most families have a similar number of qualified horses, the family passing FOF in a manner that helps performance has an overwhelming advantage.
Bill, I think the implications for your work with Conduit Mares is enormous, as well as mine with my theories of Aggression.
Passing traits with DNA makes the idea of a tail female ancestress exerting influence over many generations seem improbable, yet every year La Troienne adds some 40-50SWs to her tally. If there are traits that affect performance (and I believe FOF would necessarily affect performance) that are passed through mtDNA, it explains La Troienne (and other superior mares) performance to date and it’s absolutely possible that La Troienne’s spectacular influence will continue for some time to come.
The very fact that mammals pass so little information makes the possibility that something so subtle is at work. If there were traits that caused more than just a subtle difference, the gap between the speeds of horses would widen and that’s not what will make a herd successful, nor is it something that we see on the race track.
Regards,
Pete
I have little knowledge about mtDNA and apologize if I am not correct in my terminology.
My PC has twice locked in writing this response so I hope it’s not a sign
Mary points out that vegetation will pass significantly more traits in their mtDNA than mammals. This makes perfect sense since mammals have far greater ability to change their environment. It stands to reason that simpler, stationary species would need a more secure system to inherit traits to insure that they will survive. A perfect example is the Four O’Clock Flower that gets its’ color from mtDNA that is probably selected (and proven) as the best color to insure their survival in a particular region. In fact, it’s entirely possible (I’m extrapolating) that many different colors of this plant grew in the same area but only a specific color has survived – natural selection that is preserved through mtDNA.
I’m assuming that some if not all of the traits passed in mtDNA would be those that are necessary to the survival of the species. It doesn’t make sense that other traits would need to be passed, and if they were passed it might (would) lead to a stagnation of the gene pool. Perhaps mtDNA has other purposes genetically, but certainly it is an intact method to insure the passing of specific traits. I’m making an assumption that there will also be a trait passed in non mtDNA that has the ability to trigger a change in the mtDNA, perhaps allowing mutation or changes in the mtDNA. This might explain the ability for simpler species like insects to survive cataclysmic catastrophes that have wiped out even dominant species like the dinosaurs.
Mammals can change their environment, are mobile and have a brain and thus need far fewer ‘guaranteed’ traits for survival. In fact, since horses have proliferated throughout most of the world, stagnant traits would seem to be a hindrance.
I’d imagine that the more complex a species gets, the less need there is for mtDNA trait passing, thus humans would have, as Mary points out, very little passed in their mtDNA. I also assume that horses have no less, but perhaps not much more passed in their mtDNA. Humans and horses both share the instinct for ‘fight or flight’ (FOF) and I’m sure that this most basic trait is passed in mtDNA and the implications are mind boggling.
Humans can be courageous or cowards, a direct reflection of their FOF trait passed in mtDNA. Humans can modify their basic reaction with reason so that a person inclined to flee will fight in certain circumstances. The brain of the mammal will modify the basic instinct and humans will have greater ability to change their instinctive behavior than horses based on the ability to reason.
Whereas a difference in FOF in humans may be imperceptible to other humans, that same difference in horses may be far more impacting in a herd animal that even after thousands of years of domestication still reacts many times a day based on FOF.
The differences in FOF between horses may be very subtle but could easily account for many of their racing attributes. What we call gameness, heart, willingness, speed and class may all be affected to a greater or lesser degree by FOF. The potential impact on the success of a family is simply enormous.
The difference in ability to run a specific distance varies in most thoroughbreds by perhaps 10%. If a fast horse runs a mile in 1:34, then a 10% slower horse would run the same mile in 1:43.2. That’s the difference between grade stakes winner and 5K maiden claimer.
If a difference in FOF causes an individual to be just 2% better a race horse, that would equate to 1 length for every furlong raced! Basically, the family that passes this trait would have an 8 length advantage racing a mile. That’s the difference between graded stakes winners and allowance horses. Over time this subtle advantage would mean literally dozens, if not hundreds of additional stakes winners for the female family. It would also stand to reason that the best in this family would have an even more pronounced advantage that would translate to G1 winners and champions. Without question many other factors, like conformation, athleticism, etc. come into play, but assuming that most families have a similar number of qualified horses, the family passing FOF in a manner that helps performance has an overwhelming advantage.
Bill, I think the implications for your work with Conduit Mares is enormous, as well as mine with my theories of Aggression.
Passing traits with DNA makes the idea of a tail female ancestress exerting influence over many generations seem improbable, yet every year La Troienne adds some 40-50SWs to her tally. If there are traits that affect performance (and I believe FOF would necessarily affect performance) that are passed through mtDNA, it explains La Troienne (and other superior mares) performance to date and it’s absolutely possible that La Troienne’s spectacular influence will continue for some time to come.
The very fact that mammals pass so little information makes the possibility that something so subtle is at work. If there were traits that caused more than just a subtle difference, the gap between the speeds of horses would widen and that’s not what will make a herd successful, nor is it something that we see on the race track.
Regards,
Pete
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mary syers
- Allowance Winner
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- Joined: Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:30 pm
Mitochondria
A mitochondria makes most of the energy in any cell that has them by oxidative phosphorylation--fancy way of saying the mito is a battery where the transfer of charged hydrogens are translated into usable enegy--ATP. Mammalian mtDNA is pretty much the same accross species except for the non-coding regions. Most of the genes for the proteins of the mitochondria are inherited in a normal, nuclear DNA fashion with chromosome sorting and gene crossover--just like every other gene. The genes on the mtDNA are limited in there impact on the enegy of the individual because there is almost no genetic variance in there coding sequences. (But they are inherited maternally with no cross over or sorting of genes.)
Where there is significant difference in a species, is in the non-coding sequences. These, as the D-loop, control the amount and speed of replication and translation. This means the D-loop sequence may actually have some profound impact on the enegy produced by the mitochondria by controlling the amount of say NADH dehydrogenase inside the mitochondria.
I think the difference between a La Troienne mtDNA D-loop and a low level sporthorse D-loop could be profound and knowing this could be enlightening. Nobody knows, because nobody is looking.
By the way, the theory on plant mtDNA should be sent to Michigan State or Tuff's or someplace else where mtDNA, Agronomy, and evolution are discussed. Absolutely beautiful and ahead of any theory I've yet heard from any scientist out there. Wthout even examining this from a scientific point of view, I'd say you are probably onto something big. Mary Syers
Where there is significant difference in a species, is in the non-coding sequences. These, as the D-loop, control the amount and speed of replication and translation. This means the D-loop sequence may actually have some profound impact on the enegy produced by the mitochondria by controlling the amount of say NADH dehydrogenase inside the mitochondria.
I think the difference between a La Troienne mtDNA D-loop and a low level sporthorse D-loop could be profound and knowing this could be enlightening. Nobody knows, because nobody is looking.
By the way, the theory on plant mtDNA should be sent to Michigan State or Tuff's or someplace else where mtDNA, Agronomy, and evolution are discussed. Absolutely beautiful and ahead of any theory I've yet heard from any scientist out there. Wthout even examining this from a scientific point of view, I'd say you are probably onto something big. Mary Syers
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louis finochio
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Bill I have a nice research project for you, lets have some fun here. Below are the mediocre dams of the BOY, trace their roots back to find how many generations it took to resurface their Blue Hen production.
BOY Hildene dam Fancy Racket
Alpenstock Plymstock
Swoon Sadie Greenock
Knights Daughter Feola
Juliets Nurse Nursemaid
All Beautiful Parlo
Iberia War East
Moment of Truth II Kingsworthy
Hasty Queen II Queen Hopeful
Dunce Cap II Bright Coronet
Northern Sunset Moss Greine
In Neon Shamara
This is a great research project Bill good hunting.
BOY Hildene dam Fancy Racket
Alpenstock Plymstock
Swoon Sadie Greenock
Knights Daughter Feola
Juliets Nurse Nursemaid
All Beautiful Parlo
Iberia War East
Moment of Truth II Kingsworthy
Hasty Queen II Queen Hopeful
Dunce Cap II Bright Coronet
Northern Sunset Moss Greine
In Neon Shamara
This is a great research project Bill good hunting.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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Bill from WA
- Breeder's Cup Contender
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Bill from WA
- Breeder's Cup Contender
- Posts: 1936
- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 11:20 am
- Location: Mountlake Terrace, WA
Hi Louis
My curiosity got the best of me, and I put aside what I was working on to make a quick check of Hildene. You could put together a pretty good catalog page for this mare. I went back tail female to Enchantress (1877) She was a very good producer being the dam of the stallions Juggler (Jongleuse & Noreen Agnes), and Necromancer (Falsetto & Forget-Me-Not). She also produced Fair Vision (won her only start, the Troy Stakes in a walkover, prior to being sent to America in the 1880's). Fair Vision produced Runaway Girl, the dam of Pankhurst, who in turn was the dam of Upset, the only horse to defeat Man O' War. Runaway Girl's half sister Idle Fancy, is the conduit mare of Hildene. Idle Fancy was the dam of Idle Tale, the dam of SW Idle Dale. Idle Tale also produced Idle Dell, the dam of SW Glade. Glade was the dam of SW's Singing Wood & Easy Day. She also produced the winner, Sylvan Song, the dam of SW's Corydon, and the sire, Greek Song. Hildene was a non-winner but was a half sibling to two stakes winners. Hildene's dam, Fancy Racket, by leading sire Wrack, was a non-winner, but the dam of 2 SW's. Ultimate Fancy, the dam of Fancy Racket, was sired by the inbred Ultimus, and was a half sibling to the SW Idle Dale. She was also a half sibling to Reveillon, who made an incredible 240 starts, with a record of 28-35-28. The branches of this family outside of Hildene has been very productive. Now back to work.
Bill
My curiosity got the best of me, and I put aside what I was working on to make a quick check of Hildene. You could put together a pretty good catalog page for this mare. I went back tail female to Enchantress (1877) She was a very good producer being the dam of the stallions Juggler (Jongleuse & Noreen Agnes), and Necromancer (Falsetto & Forget-Me-Not). She also produced Fair Vision (won her only start, the Troy Stakes in a walkover, prior to being sent to America in the 1880's). Fair Vision produced Runaway Girl, the dam of Pankhurst, who in turn was the dam of Upset, the only horse to defeat Man O' War. Runaway Girl's half sister Idle Fancy, is the conduit mare of Hildene. Idle Fancy was the dam of Idle Tale, the dam of SW Idle Dale. Idle Tale also produced Idle Dell, the dam of SW Glade. Glade was the dam of SW's Singing Wood & Easy Day. She also produced the winner, Sylvan Song, the dam of SW's Corydon, and the sire, Greek Song. Hildene was a non-winner but was a half sibling to two stakes winners. Hildene's dam, Fancy Racket, by leading sire Wrack, was a non-winner, but the dam of 2 SW's. Ultimate Fancy, the dam of Fancy Racket, was sired by the inbred Ultimus, and was a half sibling to the SW Idle Dale. She was also a half sibling to Reveillon, who made an incredible 240 starts, with a record of 28-35-28. The branches of this family outside of Hildene has been very productive. Now back to work.
Bill
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes
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louis finochio
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Bill from WA
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Alpenstock hails from a very strong family. She was a winner and the dam of 8 winners. A half sister to Oaks Stakes winner Pennycomequick, and Coronation Stakes winner Sunny Devon, she was sent to America as a broodmare where she made an immediate impact. Her dam Plymstock, was a Stakes winner, and the dam of 10 winners. Plymstock's dam, conduit mare Winkipop, by pe-eminate stamina influence, William The Third, won the 1000 Guineas among her 10 wins in 18 starts. She was sent to America in the 1920's. Winkipop's dam, Conjure had one win on the turf, and was purchased by Mr. Astor (later Lord Astor) when he was an undergraduate at Oxford. She was originally to be used to breed hunters, but Mr. Astor decided to breed her to William The Third, which produced Winkipop. Conjure's sire, Juggler, is from the family of BOY Hildene. Conjure's dam, Connie, was the winner of 1 race, a 10 furlong event as a two-year-old. Connie's dam Hilarity, was a half sibling to the influential sire, Uncas. Santa Anita Derby winner, George Lewis traces tail female to Alpenstock (Winkipop) through her daughter, The Frank.
No gaps here.
Bill
No gaps here.
Bill
Last edited by Bill from WA on Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes
Hallo, Bill,
the damline of the Americanbred Hildene (Fam. 9-b) has a connection with the great foundation sire Dark Ronald in Germany, the common ancestor is Forget-me-Not several generations back.
In another tread I mentioned Java Gold, his 3rd dam Home By Dark is by Hill Prince, so she is linebred 5 x 6 to Fair Vision. His best son so far is Boreal in Germany.
Besides the still exiting Dark Ronald Sireline in my homecountry, I spot some Sires in Americanbreds tracing to him, like Johnstown.
Btw, Dark Ronald had a Halfsister exported to Germany, her name was Desiree (by Velasquez), she is the Ancestress of Wehr Dich (by Wallenstein) the German Derby winner 1939.
Best regards, Bettina
the damline of the Americanbred Hildene (Fam. 9-b) has a connection with the great foundation sire Dark Ronald in Germany, the common ancestor is Forget-me-Not several generations back.
In another tread I mentioned Java Gold, his 3rd dam Home By Dark is by Hill Prince, so she is linebred 5 x 6 to Fair Vision. His best son so far is Boreal in Germany.
Besides the still exiting Dark Ronald Sireline in my homecountry, I spot some Sires in Americanbreds tracing to him, like Johnstown.
Btw, Dark Ronald had a Halfsister exported to Germany, her name was Desiree (by Velasquez), she is the Ancestress of Wehr Dich (by Wallenstein) the German Derby winner 1939.
Best regards, Bettina
Correction
Hallo,
when I reread my message I realised I did a mistake.
Home by Dark (by Hill Prince), the 3rd dam of Java Gold is 5 x6 linbred to Idle Fancy, not Fair Vision. Sorry, if I caused any confusion.
Regards, Bettina
when I reread my message I realised I did a mistake.
Home by Dark (by Hill Prince), the 3rd dam of Java Gold is 5 x6 linbred to Idle Fancy, not Fair Vision. Sorry, if I caused any confusion.
Regards, Bettina
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Bill from WA
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Thanks Bettina, very informative as usual.
Hi Louis
Swoon's family was fairly undistinguished prior to her emergence. There were flashes of quality along other branches of this female family, but little of note in the direct line. We find that most of the stallions along the tail female trail were once or more removed from the top echelon of sires, and going back to Brocade (1874) by Bonnie Scotland (2nd in the St Leger, and leading sire in America in 1880, and 1882 after being imported to America), you don't find a lot to cheer about. Brocade's daughter, Bertha B, did produce Judge Murray, who ran 2nd in the Preakness Stakes, and Bertha B's sire Budken fathered the Kentucky Derby winner Buchanan, but unfortunately, because of his early demise at 10 years of age, Budken didn't have the opportunity to prove himself further.
Bertha B's daughter, Kate Pelletier by Rapture, who's own sire Diophantus won the 2000 Guineas, wasn't much of a racehorse or producer either. Her daughter, the conduit mare Silk Maid (1901), didn't fare much better, and although her sire Esher did sire Kentucky Derby winner Judge Hines, and the Kentucky Oaks winner Lady Schorr, Silk Maid didn't indicate that she would be anything more than ordinary. When bred to Belmont Futurity winner, Ormondale, Silk Maid produced the winner, Silk Lady. Silk Lady's sire, Ormondale was a decent stallion, being the sire of Spinaway Stakes winner Passing Shower among others, and a son of the undefeated English Triple Crown winner Ormonde, but he was a cut below the leading stallions of his day. The mating that produced Silk Lady offered a glimpse of what might lie ahead as she was the dam of 8 winners. One of her winners, Sadie Greenock (1933), by the relatively undistinguished stallion, Greenock (193 foals, 4 stakes winners), produced 10 foals, 9 runners and 8 winners. Sadie Greenock's daughter Swoon, by another blue collar stallion, Sweep Like (199 foals, 2 stakes winners), became Broodmare of the Year. Swoon is inbred to the top sire, and Belmont Stakes winner, Sweep, 2x4. Swoon bred 10 foals, all raced with 8 winners, including dual Champion Swoon's Son. This one kind of came out of nowhere.
Bill
Hi Louis
Swoon's family was fairly undistinguished prior to her emergence. There were flashes of quality along other branches of this female family, but little of note in the direct line. We find that most of the stallions along the tail female trail were once or more removed from the top echelon of sires, and going back to Brocade (1874) by Bonnie Scotland (2nd in the St Leger, and leading sire in America in 1880, and 1882 after being imported to America), you don't find a lot to cheer about. Brocade's daughter, Bertha B, did produce Judge Murray, who ran 2nd in the Preakness Stakes, and Bertha B's sire Budken fathered the Kentucky Derby winner Buchanan, but unfortunately, because of his early demise at 10 years of age, Budken didn't have the opportunity to prove himself further.
Bertha B's daughter, Kate Pelletier by Rapture, who's own sire Diophantus won the 2000 Guineas, wasn't much of a racehorse or producer either. Her daughter, the conduit mare Silk Maid (1901), didn't fare much better, and although her sire Esher did sire Kentucky Derby winner Judge Hines, and the Kentucky Oaks winner Lady Schorr, Silk Maid didn't indicate that she would be anything more than ordinary. When bred to Belmont Futurity winner, Ormondale, Silk Maid produced the winner, Silk Lady. Silk Lady's sire, Ormondale was a decent stallion, being the sire of Spinaway Stakes winner Passing Shower among others, and a son of the undefeated English Triple Crown winner Ormonde, but he was a cut below the leading stallions of his day. The mating that produced Silk Lady offered a glimpse of what might lie ahead as she was the dam of 8 winners. One of her winners, Sadie Greenock (1933), by the relatively undistinguished stallion, Greenock (193 foals, 4 stakes winners), produced 10 foals, 9 runners and 8 winners. Sadie Greenock's daughter Swoon, by another blue collar stallion, Sweep Like (199 foals, 2 stakes winners), became Broodmare of the Year. Swoon is inbred to the top sire, and Belmont Stakes winner, Sweep, 2x4. Swoon bred 10 foals, all raced with 8 winners, including dual Champion Swoon's Son. This one kind of came out of nowhere.
Bill
Last edited by Bill from WA on Sun Jun 12, 2005 10:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
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louis finochio
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Bill from WA
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Hi
The family of Knight's Daughter is one of the most influential in the breed's history. Tracing tail female from Knight's Daughter back to Pampeluna (1874), an unraced daughter of Ascot Derby (now King Edward VII Stakes) winner The Palmer, we find the humble beginnings of the quality that was to flower in later generations. Pampeluna was the dam of winners, but it is through her unraced daughter, Navaretta that the line flourishes. Navaretta (1893) was sired by St Leger Stakes winner Kilwarlin, and produced 4 winners including the conduit mare, Altoviscar (1902) by Donovan. The 5th Earl of Carnarvon is listed as Altoviscar's breeder, but the Earl purchased Navaretta when in foal from Mr. J.A. Dawson for 1000 Guineas at Newmarket in December of 1901. In 1905 Altoviscar was purchased by J.H. Greer (later Sir Henry Greer) for 400 Guineas. Greer stood the great stallion Gallinule. Altoviscar produced 11 foals and 5 winners, with the filly Alope being much the best (2nd in the 1000 Guineas). Altoviscar has 5 lines to Touchstone in 6 generations, and is line bred to the Danish bred, Mowerina (1843), dam of England's first Triple Crown winner, West Australian. Mowerina's great granddaughter of the same name (1876) by Scottish Chief, won 16 races, and produced Epsom Derby winner, Donovan, the sire of Altoviscar. The previously mentioned daughter of Altoviscar, Alope (1909), who was 25 years younger than her sire Gallinule, bred 5 winners, but it is through a daughter, Aloe (1909) by Son-In -Law, who failed to win while competing at a very high level, and who produced 5 winners, that the line continues. One of Aloe's daughters, Feola (1933) (2nd in the 1000 Guineas, and 3rd in the Oaks Stakes) by the top sprinter, Friar Marcus, proved to be a pivotal mare in the history of the thoroughbred. It is through Feola and her daughter, Knight's Daughter, that the breed has been so profoundly impacted. Knight's Daughter was a fast horse on the race track. Racing only as a two-year-old, she ran on, or near the pace in all of the 3 wins in 4 starts of her racing career, with all races being run at Newmarket due to the war. Her sire, the registerd black, Sir Cosmo, was also a very good sprinter, and passed this quality on to his get, with the average winning distance of his progeny at 6.57 furlongs.
Knight's Daughter is the dam of the immortal Round Table. Other notables, among many from this family, that trace tail female to the conduit Altoviscar, are Aureole, Gone West, Pulpit, Jet Ski Lady, and Sideral.
Bill
The family of Knight's Daughter is one of the most influential in the breed's history. Tracing tail female from Knight's Daughter back to Pampeluna (1874), an unraced daughter of Ascot Derby (now King Edward VII Stakes) winner The Palmer, we find the humble beginnings of the quality that was to flower in later generations. Pampeluna was the dam of winners, but it is through her unraced daughter, Navaretta that the line flourishes. Navaretta (1893) was sired by St Leger Stakes winner Kilwarlin, and produced 4 winners including the conduit mare, Altoviscar (1902) by Donovan. The 5th Earl of Carnarvon is listed as Altoviscar's breeder, but the Earl purchased Navaretta when in foal from Mr. J.A. Dawson for 1000 Guineas at Newmarket in December of 1901. In 1905 Altoviscar was purchased by J.H. Greer (later Sir Henry Greer) for 400 Guineas. Greer stood the great stallion Gallinule. Altoviscar produced 11 foals and 5 winners, with the filly Alope being much the best (2nd in the 1000 Guineas). Altoviscar has 5 lines to Touchstone in 6 generations, and is line bred to the Danish bred, Mowerina (1843), dam of England's first Triple Crown winner, West Australian. Mowerina's great granddaughter of the same name (1876) by Scottish Chief, won 16 races, and produced Epsom Derby winner, Donovan, the sire of Altoviscar. The previously mentioned daughter of Altoviscar, Alope (1909), who was 25 years younger than her sire Gallinule, bred 5 winners, but it is through a daughter, Aloe (1909) by Son-In -Law, who failed to win while competing at a very high level, and who produced 5 winners, that the line continues. One of Aloe's daughters, Feola (1933) (2nd in the 1000 Guineas, and 3rd in the Oaks Stakes) by the top sprinter, Friar Marcus, proved to be a pivotal mare in the history of the thoroughbred. It is through Feola and her daughter, Knight's Daughter, that the breed has been so profoundly impacted. Knight's Daughter was a fast horse on the race track. Racing only as a two-year-old, she ran on, or near the pace in all of the 3 wins in 4 starts of her racing career, with all races being run at Newmarket due to the war. Her sire, the registerd black, Sir Cosmo, was also a very good sprinter, and passed this quality on to his get, with the average winning distance of his progeny at 6.57 furlongs.
Knight's Daughter is the dam of the immortal Round Table. Other notables, among many from this family, that trace tail female to the conduit Altoviscar, are Aureole, Gone West, Pulpit, Jet Ski Lady, and Sideral.
Bill
Hold fast to dreams, for if dreams die, life is like a broken winged bird that cannot fly.
Langston Hughes
Langston Hughes