Anyone got any nice inexpensive broodmares for sale?

[BJ]

Anyone requiring clarification or more information could have requested it without suggesting the poster must be up to no good based on nothing more than your own distrust.

I believe I did just that when I asked the questions: 1) What are you planning to do with these mares?; and b) What happened to the mares these new mares are replacing?

As I recall...the mere asking of the questions provoked the poster to be "defensive".

If you have a mare to lease, to give away or to sell inexpensively, then by all means do the necessary homework and screen the lessee or buyer thoroughly. It's not hard to secure the buyer's intent or to secure the future of the horse with a written contract. (BJ, you're certainly the last person on this forum I need to explain the value of a written contract to). Even then, there's no gaurantee you won't be duped. But to take the stand that because some people are crooks, then everyone must be crooked borders on paranoia.

I stopped believing in people's good intentions when I learned the majority of this industry looks the other way, or finds reasons to "just go along" with the status quo. IF you care to go back and read MY POSTS, you will find I called no one any names, nor did I do anthing but ask VALID questions that any individual who cared about the welfare of the horse would ask. On this board alone, I have seen "deals" go down that turned out to be "not what they were intended to be".

The poster, Stealing Kat, set things in motion with first, requesting cheap or inexpensive broodmares to lease or buy. (The name the poster chooses, is enough to cause a double-take.) Then, subsequent posts joyfully declaring about this great new broodmare band, put together via the postings of this board and emails responding to same... that I, and others thought it sounded just a little too "easy", and that we questioned it...so what? Like I said...the horses can't speak for themselves. You "people" don't seem to have that problem, though do you?

Wish you would put all that energy getting "offended" to better use.

[Ryeno]

Although an explanation is not needed Stealing Kat is the name of her 3yo colt by Katahoula County.

[austique]

Prior to producing All American Futurity winner Pie in the Sky, Miss Jelly Roll, his dam, was given away for free due to her unfashionable pedigree and later became one of the first $1 million dollar QH broodmares. Its silly to assume that just because people are hunting in a lower price range that they are looking for killer horses and its equally silly to assume that horses selling for low prices are ill bred or useless. My dad bought me a Joey Bob mare for $350 as a present and the mare went on to win four races and place in numerous races, but her rich previous owner had dubbed her useless as he had other better pedigreed horses. My brother's first stakes placed horse was given to the owner (again dubbed useless due to lack of pedigree) and he won his first three starts. My point is that for all the posturing that goes on about saving horses from the slaughter house people still want to turn around and call horses useless because they don't fit some acid test pedigree wise, but its the small breeders who follow the less predominant lines who are keeping genetic variety in the game. The point is that "value" is in the eye of the beholder and small breeders with big dreams are the backbone of this industry. They fill the races.

[BJ]

Prior to producing All American Futurity winner Pie in the Sky, Miss Jelly Roll, his dam, was given away for free due to her unfashionable pedigree and later became one of the first $1 million dollar QH broodmares. Its silly to assume that just because people are hunting in a lower price range that they are looking for killer horses and its equally silly to assume that horses selling for low prices are ill bred or useless. My dad bought me a Joey Bob mare for $350 as a present and the mare went on to win four races and place in numerous races, but her rich previous owner had dubbed her useless as he had other better pedigreed horses. My brother's first stakes placed horse was given to the owner (again dubbed useless due to lack of pedigree) and he won his first three starts. My point is that for all the posturing that goes on about saving horses from the slaughter house people still want to turn around and call horses useless because they don't fit some acid test pedigree wise, but its the small breeders who follow the less predominant lines who are keeping genetic variety in the game. The point is that "value" is in the eye of the beholder and small breeders with big dreams are the backbone of this industry. They fill the races.

1. The person using the word "cheap" or "inexpensive" was the person looking for "cheap" or "inexpensive" mares. To me, all horses are precious, priceless creatures. I'd take them over most people any day!

2. How often (% of time) do the "cheap" or "inexpensive" horses turn out to be a high ROI in dollars? (I don't count emotional ROI...again...to me, that is priceless.)

3. I am the last person to NOT cheer for the underdog. I'm always for the "cheap" or "inexpensive" horse that most look down their noses at.

4. You proudly state the backbone of the industry is the cheap & inexpensive horse. Seems to me, this "debate" started over some of us placing a much higher value on these "backbone of the industry" horses than the majority of those who benefit from them.

[StealingKat]

I apologize for using the wrong wording when looking for mares. Again all I can do is say "sorry" My colts name is "Stealing Kat " And I love him dearly that is why I chose the name. The only post that I reacted to was Joes. ( and I am fairly certain that most people would have, I WAS attacked publically) I answered your post (regarding the retired mares clearly and without any upset.) Can we please move on. I with wilf DRINK time!!!!

[Linda in TX]

I stopped believing in people's good intentions when I learned the majority of this industry looks the other way

Color you cynical, BJ, but that doesn't excuse bad manners.

IF you care to go back and read MY POSTS, you will find I called no one any names

IF you'd care to go back to read my FIRST post on this thread, you'll find I never addressed you. I quoted and took issue with "wilf's" statements, and I referred specifically to Joe's rudeness. At no time did I mention you, your posts, or accuse you of "name calling." Also in my first post, I stated it wouldn't hurt a few readers on this forum to brush up on their reading comprehension skills. That still stands.

If you want to discuss the issue further, BJ, I'll oblige you, but take it off this board. My email addy is provided below. Use it.

[BJ]

I stopped believing in people's good intentions when I learned the majority of this industry looks the other way

Color you cynical, BJ, but that doesn't excuse bad manners.

IF you care to go back and read MY POSTS, you will find I called no one any names

IF you'd care to go back to read my FIRST post on this thread, you'll find I never addressed you. I quoted and took issue with "wilf's" statements, and I referred specifically to Joe's rudeness. At no time did I mention you, your posts, or accuse you of "name calling." Also in my first post, I stated it wouldn't hurt a few readers on this forum to brush up on their reading comprehension skills. That still stands.

If you want to discuss the issue further, BJ, I'll oblige you, but take it off this board. My email addy is provided below. Use it.

It was MY quotes you were taking issue with and ME you were going off on. No need to take it private. It started public, it can stay that way.

[Linda in TX]

It was MY quotes you were taking issue with and ME you were going off on.

Are you referring to my response after your ranted about a scammer at Finger Lakes as if that person and Stealing Kat are one and the same? I'll reiterate my response to you in case you missed it the first time: To take the stand that because some people are crooks, then everyone must be crooked, borders on paranoia.

Your interjection was in response to my response to "wilf." My response to "wilf" wasn't even about you - my response was about "wilf's" statement and Joe's rudeness. I responded to you because there you were - ranting about crooks and insinuating an inexpensive mare must be worthless otherwise she'd be priced higher.

I assure you, I haven't gone off on you. But why you now regard any issue as being about you is beyond my understanding.

[Sam]

head shake

Fanatics.

[sb]

Just because a mare is free, priced inexpensively or available to lease doesn't mean she's "cheap" and incapable of producing good runners. Sounds like you're not familiar with the Saggy-Joppy School of Genetics.

Cheap or expensive [costly] is a relative term anyway, and so is the estimated value of any horse, since values cannot be 'fixed' with horses as they are, for the most part, not sold 'on the hoof.'
It is not difficult to pay too much for a horse/broodmare in that she will not return the investment or even make a profit with her babies as breeding has become very costly, both in terms of getting the mare in foal at a farm and the time it takes to produce a good
sales or race prospect.
A realistic look at most all of the auctions will support my claim.
On the other hand, many a 'cheap' horse [broodmare, claimer, etc] has turned out to be a goldmine for the owner, but the stories told by the owners themselves and the way people look at it from the outside is most often a very different story.
Cheap or expensive, within reasonable definition of the purpose and all other things being equal, is not always an indicator for the ultimate quality of a breeding/racing animal. Genetics is complicated at best; if it weren't, there could probably be no race horse industry?

SB

[sb]

The point is that "value" is in the eye of the beholder and small breeders with big dreams are the backbone of this industry. They fill the races.

Probably very true, and there is a huge difference between the various aspects of the racing industry; the breeders/owners and the bettors . Horse racing- like all other gambling games- has always been connected with making [or losing, lol] money, but those who supply the raw material and those who 'play' with it, don't always see eye to eye. Without the bettors there would be no horse racing the way we know it today. Each race has a winner [hopefully], but there are various classifications or 'handicaps' if you like, and that's the asorted race groups and classes as in claiming ranks, allowance, small and big stakes races, etc. "Cheap' horses, for the most part are owned or raced by people with shallower pockets as owners don't have to pay high stakes nominations and premiums ahead of time.
So 'cheap' is a not so kind word which often needs defining in more details. A truely 'cheap' mare is most likely not worth breeding in today's market conditions, lest the breeder wants to race the horse himself/herself. Fortunately, many a 'cheap' horse not worth breeding for racing has been rechanneled into the sportshorse world where they became stars..... those who nobody wants are the unfortunate ones.

SB

[Jean]

perhaps some of the people who have given horses to Stealing Cat will respond so we can hear their side of the story.

[BJ]

So Linda,

I guess "imparting" a story about how at least a dozen people were "fooled" into believing their horses would go to "good homes" as an example of how "things may not always be what they seem", and why, on a public forum, someone looking to replace their entire broodmare herd "cheap", should most definitely be looked at with suspicion...that's "ranting" and accusing someone of being a crook to you???? Who's the paranoid one, jumping to conclusions?

My PREVIOUS POST:
>>>Linda...

Better safe than sorry, I always say. Would rather see a human (who can take care of his/herself) offended than an animal who has no voice meet a horrible end. BTW...guess you didn't read about the recent happenings at the Finger Lakes track where this TRUSTED former employee was going around promising to find wonderful, loving homes for the horses who could no longer cut it on the track...only to have them end up at the local meat auction. It happens every day!!!! Thank goodness, with the help of our very own Marli...this woman is now in jail!

If it turns out the horses are in fine hands with a caring future in front of them... fabulous! But anyone who really intends to do no harm would have NO problem proving it.

Joe's suspicions were right in line with my thoughts, BASED on the presentation of the poster. And frankly...broodmares that are going "cheap" are usually not producing, which is why they are cheap, UNFORTUNATELY! <<<

[Linda in TX]

I guess "imparting" a story about how at least a dozen people were "fooled" into believing their horses would go to "good homes" as an example of how "things may not always be what they seem", and why, on a public forum, someone looking to replace their entire broodmare herd "cheap", should most definitely be looked at with suspicion...that's "ranting" and accusing someone of being a crook to you????

Of course it's a rant, BJ. And anyone who has successfully completed Reading Comprehension 101 will recognize it as such.

I doubt there's a single member of this forum who needs to be enlightened about the con artists in our society. Fraud happens and not just to horse owners acting in good faith. There was absolutely no reason to roll out the rant and recount the Finger Lakes incident other than to support your basic premise the poster soliciting inexpensive mares must be up to no good. Even in the quote above you're still offering a random statement (highlighted in red) as concrete evidence your suspicion is valid.

If you have suspicions, fine, but as I suggested previously, gather your facts first to substantiate the accuracy of your suspicion before lynching your suspect (asking three questions hardly constitutes a thoughtful fact finding effort). To do so just might prevent you from becoming a zealot so hell bent on championing a cause you don't care how many honorable toes you step on in the process. And thus causing those whose toes were smashed to become extremely resentful.

BJ justifies her impetuousness...

Better safe than sorry, I always say. Would rather see a human (who can take care of his/herself) offended than an animal who has no voice meet a horrible end.

[BJ]

I guess "imparting" a story about how at least a dozen people were "fooled" into believing their horses would go to "good homes" as an example of how "things may not always be what they seem", and why, on a public forum, someone looking to replace their entire broodmare herd "cheap", should most definitely be looked at with suspicion...that's "ranting" and accusing someone of being a crook to you????

Of course it's a rant, BJ. And anyone who has successfully completed Reading Comprehension 101 will recognize it as such.

I doubt there's a single member of this forum who needs to be enlightened about the con artists in our society. Fraud happens and not just to horse owners acting in good faith. There was absolutely no reason to roll out the rant and recount the Finger Lakes incident other than to support your basic premise the poster soliciting inexpensive mares must be up to no good. Even in the quote above you're still offering a random statement (highlighted in red) as concrete evidence your suspicion is valid.

If you have suspicions, fine, but as I suggested previously, gather your facts first to substantiate the accuracy of your suspicion before lynching your suspect (asking three questions hardly constitutes a thoughtful fact finding effort). To do so just might prevent you from becoming a zealot so hell bent on championing a cause you don't care how many honorable toes you step on in the process. And thus causing those whose toes were smashed to become extremely resentful.

BJ justifies her impetuousness...

Better safe than sorry, I always say. Would rather see a human (who can take care of his/herself) offended than an animal who has no voice meet a horrible end.

ROTFLMAO!! Don't know what kind of "honorable toes" you hang out with...but the one's I hang out with would have ZERO problem assuring anyone of their "honorable intentions". You keep up your zeal over protecting the voiceless toes of others...I'll keep to mine.

Have a nice day!