FROG JUICE (dermorphin)

[casallc]

Furosemide adverse reactions are categorized below by organ system and listed by decreasing severity:

Gastrointestinal System Reactions
1.hepatic encephalopathy in patients with hepatocellular insufficiency
2.pancreatitis
3.jaundice (intrahepatic cholestatic jaundice)
4.increased liver enzymes
5.anorexia
6.oral and gastric irritation
7.cramping
8.diarrhea
9.constipation
10.nausea
11.vomiting

Systemic Hypersensitivity Reactions
1.Severe anaphylactic or anaphylactoid reations (e.g. with shock)
2.systemic vasculitis
3.interstitial nephritis
4.necrotizing angiitis

Central Nervous System Reactions
1.tinnitus and hearing loss
2.paresthesias
3.vertigo
4.dizziness
5.headache
6.blurred vision
7.xanthopsia

Hematologic Reactions
1.aplastic anemia (rare)
2.thrombocytopenia
3.agranulocytosis (rare)
4.hemolytic anemia
5.leukopenia
6.anemia
7.eosinophilia

Dermatologic-Hypersensitivity Reactions
1.exfoliative dermatitis
2.bullous pemphigoid
3.erythema multiforme
4.purpura
5.photosensitivity
6.urticaria
7.rash
8.pruritus
9.Stevens-Johnson Syndrome
10.toxic epidermal necrolysis

Cardiovascular Reaction
1.Orthostatic hypotension may occur and be aggravated by alcohol, barbiturates or narcotics.
2.Increase in cholesterol and triglyceride serum levels

Other Reactions
1.hyperglycemia
2.glycosuria
3.hyperuricemia
4.muscle spasm
5.weakness
6.restlessness
7.urinary bladder spasm
8.thrombophlebitis
9.fever

[TJ]

OK, looks like the adverse reaction list on every medication on the market. If we read and believed those warnings none of us would ever take any medication prescribed by our doctor. They are horrifying warnings and usually those side effects seldom appear. But in the end, we decide to take the prescribed medication because we are looking for the immediate relief of what that medication was prescribed for and will do for us. No matter what the possible side effects of lasix, it does what it is intended to do in the horse, lower blood pressure and help prevent horses from bleeding internally or gushing out their nostrils.
The main concern I've had with administering lasix to a horse is of course the dehydration and loss of minerals do to urination, both necessary effects of lasix in order to lower blood volume and in turn lower blood pressure. After a race, I usually wait 1 or 2 days then administer a jug with additional potassium and magnesium. I also take a blood every three weeks and if something is out of balance it will be addressed. TJ

[casallc]

OK, looks like the adverse reaction list on every medication on the market. If we read and believed those warnings none of us would ever take any medication prescribed by our doctor. They are horrifying warnings and usually those side effects seldom appear. But in the end, we decide to take the prescribed medication because we are looking for the immediate relief of what that medication was prescribed for and will do for us. No matter what the possible side effects of lasix, it does what it is intended to do in the horse, lower blood pressure and help prevent horses from bleeding internally or gushing out their nostrils. The main concern I've had with administering lasix to a horse is of course the dehydration and loss of minerals do to urination, both necessary effects of lasix in order to lower blood volume and in turn lower blood pressure. After a race, I usually wait 1 or 2 days then administer a jug with additional potassium and magnesium. I also take a blood every three weeks and if something is out of balance it will be addressed. TJ

Kudos for blood testing your horses, it is something rarely done by most trainers. Knowing how to enterpret a CBP or a blood culture will give you more information about your horses well being than anything.

But Lasix has never been shown to stop bleeding (only thought that it lessens the bleeding but did not identify an association between weight lost and prevention of EIPH) nor is that the indicated use per manufacturer: Salix® is indicated for the treatment of edema, (pulmonary congestion, ascites) associated with cardiac insufficiency and acute noninflammatory tissue edema. Some people do USE furosemide for EIPH but it has never been suggested by any pharmaceutical laboratory as a treatment for EIPH.
http://www.ntra.com/summit/files/Stephen%20Reeds.ppt

[JimP]

TJ,

I too was impressed that you pull blood instead of throwing everything
in the medicine chest to see if it will fix the problem.

JimP

[TJ]

OK, looks like the adverse reaction list on every medication on the market. If we read and believed those warnings none of us would ever take any medication prescribed by our doctor. They are horrifying warnings and usually those side effects seldom appear. But in the end, we decide to take the prescribed medication because we are looking for the immediate relief of what that medication was prescribed for and will do for us. No matter what the possible side effects of lasix, it does what it is intended to do in the horse, lower blood pressure and help prevent horses from bleeding internally or gushing out their nostrils. The main concern I've had with administering lasix to a horse is of course the dehydration and loss of minerals do to urination, both necessary effects of lasix in order to lower blood volume and in turn lower blood pressure. After a race, I usually wait 1 or 2 days then administer a jug with additional potassium and magnesium. I also take a blood every three weeks and if something is out of balance it will be addressed. TJ

Kudos for blood testing your horses, it is something rarely done by most trainers. Knowing how to enterpret a CBP or a blood culture will give you more information about your horses well being than anything.

But Lasix has never been shown to stop bleeding (only thought that it lessens the bleeding but did not identify an association between weight lost and prevention of EIPH) nor is that the indicated use per manufacturer: Salix® is indicated for the treatment of edema, (pulmonary congestion, ascites) associated with cardiac insufficiency and acute noninflammatory tissue edema. Some people do USE furosemide for EIPH but it has never been suggested by any pharmaceutical laboratory as a treatment for EIPH.
http://www.ntra.com/summit/files/Stephen%20Reeds.ppt

Hi cas,
Where I came up taking blood was no big deal...it was as normal as taking a horses temperature and examining their legs before they left the barn every morning. I don't need a study to tell me that lasix can prevent a bleeder from reaching an uncontrollable level.....the studies are biased, I make my own decisions according to my experience. It is extreme pressure in the circulatory system that cause horses to bleed in their lungs. Lasix lowers blood pressure and in so doing, lowers the pressure in their lungs. This lower pressure within their system, brought about by the lasix, will help prevent a horse from bleeding to the point it compromises his ability to run well in a race. TJ

[casallc]

OK, looks like the adverse reaction list on every medication on the market. If we read and believed those warnings none of us would ever take any medication prescribed by our doctor. They are horrifying warnings and usually those side effects seldom appear. But in the end, we decide to take the prescribed medication because we are looking for the immediate relief of what that medication was prescribed for and will do for us. No matter what the possible side effects of lasix, it does what it is intended to do in the horse, lower blood pressure and help prevent horses from bleeding internally or gushing out their nostrils. The main concern I've had with administering lasix to a horse is of course the dehydration and loss of minerals do to urination, both necessary effects of lasix in order to lower blood volume and in turn lower blood pressure. After a race, I usually wait 1 or 2 days then administer a jug with additional potassium and magnesium. I also take a blood every three weeks and if something is out of balance it will be addressed. TJ

Kudos for blood testing your horses, it is something rarely done by most trainers. Knowing how to enterpret a CBP or a blood culture will give you more information about your horses well being than anything.

But Lasix has never been shown to stop bleeding (only thought that it lessens the bleeding but did not identify an association between weight lost and prevention of EIPH) nor is that the indicated use per manufacturer: Salix® is indicated for the treatment of edema, (pulmonary congestion, ascites) associated with cardiac insufficiency and acute noninflammatory tissue edema. Some people do USE furosemide for EIPH but it has never been suggested by any pharmaceutical laboratory as a treatment for EIPH.
http://www.ntra.com/summit/files/Stephen%20Reeds.ppt

Hi cas,
Where I came up taking blood was no big deal...it was as normal as taking a horses temperature and examining their legs before they left the barn every morning. I don't need a study to tell me that lasix can prevent a bleeder from reaching an uncontrollable level.....the studies are biased, I make my own decisions according to my experience. It is extreme pressure in the circulatory system that cause horses to bleed in their lungs. Lasix lowers blood pressure and in so doing, lowers the pressure in their lungs. This lower pressure within their system, brought about by the lasix, will help prevent a horse from bleeding to the point it compromises his ability to run well in a race. TJ

I understand that you think it is beneficial in helping EIPH (which all horses have to some degree) and lessens the severity. If that was all it did I would be on the bandwagon for it with you. The things you never speak to, is the weight loss advantage and the bronchodilation effects that come with furosemide that gives a horse an advantage over any horse that does not use it. Bronchodilators are forbidden on race day unless you use lasix, in which case you get a free pass. This is the hypocricy of lasix that my objection comes from. Most people use it because it gives them an edge – not because of EIPH. If racing is going to allow performance enhancing drugs to those who claim to have a bleeder and not to anyone else - why wouldn’t everyone else use it? Well, they do and that is why usage of lasix has snowballed until almost every horse is running on it – and it is ruining racing.

I can’t understand how anyone who can look at the subject objectively could come to any other conclusion.

[winds]

I see the opposite happening. I see that a nationwide lasix ban will ruin racing. But that is my humble opinion.

winds

[casallc]

I see the opposite happening. I see that a nationwide lasix ban will ruin racing. But that is my humble opinion.

winds

You are entitled to your opinion - wrong as it may be. Until someone can answer why it is OK for a "bleeder" to get performance enhancing drugs and no one else, I'm calling BS on lasix touts.

[BenB]

Cassallc i have had the same different opinion as you have.

But people are just gooiing, the same way as in the last forty years.

With or without lasix, the racing will be less, only driven by economics reasons.

[ageecee]

more trainers are getting 6 month suspensions. 2 more trainers got there fate today.

[casallc]

40 percent of the horses finishing ‘in the money’ in the 25 time trial races for the Ruidoso Futurity & Derby on May 25 were illegally drugged - most with dermorphin (frog juice).

http://www.kasa.com/dpps/news/investiga ... at_4236835

[Laurierace]

OK, looks like the adverse reaction list on every medication on the market. If we read and believed those warnings none of us would ever take any medication prescribed by our doctor. They are horrifying warnings and usually those side effects seldom appear. But in the end, we decide to take the prescribed medication because we are looking for the immediate relief of what that medication was prescribed for and will do for us. No matter what the possible side effects of lasix, it does what it is intended to do in the horse, lower blood pressure and help prevent horses from bleeding internally or gushing out their nostrils. The main concern I've had with administering lasix to a horse is of course the dehydration and loss of minerals do to urination, both necessary effects of lasix in order to lower blood volume and in turn lower blood pressure. After a race, I usually wait 1 or 2 days then administer a jug with additional potassium and magnesium. I also take a blood every three weeks and if something is out of balance it will be addressed. TJ

Kudos for blood testing your horses, it is something rarely done by most trainers. Knowing how to enterpret a CBP or a blood culture will give you more information about your horses well being than anything.

But Lasix has never been shown to stop bleeding (only thought that it lessens the bleeding but did not identify an association between weight lost and prevention of EIPH) nor is that the indicated use per manufacturer: Salix® is indicated for the treatment of edema, (pulmonary congestion, ascites) associated with cardiac insufficiency and acute noninflammatory tissue edema. Some people do USE furosemide for EIPH but it has never been suggested by any pharmaceutical laboratory as a treatment for EIPH.
http://www.ntra.com/summit/files/Stephen%20Reeds.ppt

Hi cas,
Where I came up taking blood was no big deal...it was as normal as taking a horses temperature and examining their legs before they left the barn every morning. I don't need a study to tell me that lasix can prevent a bleeder from reaching an uncontrollable level.....the studies are biased, I make my own decisions according to my experience. It is extreme pressure in the circulatory system that cause horses to bleed in their lungs. Lasix lowers blood pressure and in so doing, lowers the pressure in their lungs. This lower pressure within their system, brought about by the lasix, will help prevent a horse from bleeding to the point it compromises his ability to run well in a race. TJ

I understand that you think it is beneficial in helping EIPH (which all horses have to some degree) and lessens the severity. If that was all it did I would be on the bandwagon for it with you. The things you never speak to, is the weight loss advantage and the bronchodilation effects that come with furosemide that gives a horse an advantage over any horse that does not use it. Bronchodilators are forbidden on race day unless you use lasix, in which case you get a free pass. This is the hypocricy of lasix that my objection comes from. Most people use it because it gives them an edge – not because of EIPH. If racing is going to allow performance enhancing drugs to those who claim to have a bleeder and not to anyone else - why wouldn’t everyone else use it? Well, they do and that is why usage of lasix has snowballed until almost every horse is running on it – and it is ruining racing.

I can’t understand how anyone who can look at the subject objectively could come to any other conclusion.

I am sure the answer is no but was wondering if you had a link attesting to the bronchodilator properties of lasix because that sure is news to me.

[casallc]

All you have to do is google "furosemide bronchodilation" and you will come up with enough to keep you reading all day (links were listed in the previous post). Here are a couple:

Furosemide is reported to reduce mucociliary clearance in humans and bronchodilation in ponies with recurrent airway obstruction
http://www.ntra.com/summit/files/Stephen%20Reeds.ppt

Furosemide has been shown to cause bronchodilation, which may also play a role in the prevention of epistaxis.
http://www.wedgewoodpetrx.com/learning- ... y-use.html

Furosemide: Progress in understanding its diuretic, anti-inflammatory, and bronchodilating mechanism of action, and use in the treatment of respiratory tract diseases
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13817034

Researchers concluded that based on these findings,furosemide may provide added bronchodilator benefits in those patients with naturally occurring asthma https://www.google.com/#q=Furosemide+bronchodilation&hl=en&prmd=imvns&ei=nZ8EUIytI4rK2AWb8LCjBQ&start=10&sa=N&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&fp=96c42963bb9ff947&biw=1280&bih=701