hi, I'm sure you all are familiar with me asking about my mare Appealing Style. i did decide to buy her even though she is 18. I have it down to a few stallions that I was offered seasons at good prices on. I need everyones opinion on which stud to go to. They are
1. Flame Thrower
2. Alysweep
3. Sweetsouthernsaint
4. Snuck In
Flame Thrower is a hot commodity right now, but bottom line is weak. Alysweep bring End Sweep over Valid Appeal which has been a very successful nick, but will he be commercial like Trippi. Sweetsouthernsaint is already putting out good runners, and Snuck In has a lot of potential. HELP!!!
Poll about stallions
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Hi Derby2004,
I vote for Flame Thrower; I was very much impressed by his stretch duels with Street Cry as a 2YO and the pedigrees fit together very nicely. Interesting point about his female line being quite odd; though in fairness to it his dam only had 5 foals (1 SW), his 2nd dam 6 foals (1 SW), and his 3rd dam, a Stakes Winner, had 5 (1 SW).
Alysweep wasn't the racehorse Flame Thrower was, and even though Trippi and Nany's Sweep are nothing to sneeze at, that End Sweep/Valid Appeal nick still only covers one side of Alysweep and Appealing Style's pedigrees (in both cases the sireside). It's not a "Holistic" pedigree match-up like with Flame Thrower, where there are many reasons for liking it that together manage to span the sireside/damside divide of the hypothetical sire and dam.
It's also notable that Flame Thrower's yearlings had an average of $42,923 and a median of $29,500 in '04 (in both cases impressive considering that the figures are based on a meaningfully sized sample of 22 sold).
-llbean
I vote for Flame Thrower; I was very much impressed by his stretch duels with Street Cry as a 2YO and the pedigrees fit together very nicely. Interesting point about his female line being quite odd; though in fairness to it his dam only had 5 foals (1 SW), his 2nd dam 6 foals (1 SW), and his 3rd dam, a Stakes Winner, had 5 (1 SW).
Alysweep wasn't the racehorse Flame Thrower was, and even though Trippi and Nany's Sweep are nothing to sneeze at, that End Sweep/Valid Appeal nick still only covers one side of Alysweep and Appealing Style's pedigrees (in both cases the sireside). It's not a "Holistic" pedigree match-up like with Flame Thrower, where there are many reasons for liking it that together manage to span the sireside/damside divide of the hypothetical sire and dam.
It's also notable that Flame Thrower's yearlings had an average of $42,923 and a median of $29,500 in '04 (in both cases impressive considering that the figures are based on a meaningfully sized sample of 22 sold).
-llbean
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Derby2004
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Hi all, I love Flame Thrower with her, but as we all know, he is on the bubble. He is worth it in my mind. But I also cant ignore the results of End Sweep over Valid Appeal. Its a genetic thing. I also hear that Alysweep is a gorgeous animal. So his babies might look the part. The farm says that they are about to close the book on him at 80, with some very nice mares. Of course they would say that though. But I am also looking for the commercial side also.
hi Derby2004
For starters...there's always a risk. But if you are willing to take a calculated one...I suggest that the upside could be good with Flame Thrower...and the downside is somewhat limited (at least for a while).
Consider this...Flame Thrower was very well represented at the sales...and as llbean wrote, the numbers were quite good (All Things Considered).
Also...Flame Thrower was a brilliant...and very game two-year-old...not just another 2-year-old stakes-winner. He was quite special. I suggest that may bode well for what he might deliver. But even if they don't set the world on fire at the races...his offspring were apparently well-liked enough overall to attract many "real" buyers willing to pay some pretty good prices. I suggest that there is always a good market for "racy" looking...strong...athletic types that have that early "look." It's probably fair to say that Flame Thrower fits that bill.
His female family has not stopped buyers from showing legit interest in his offspring...and don't forget...Saint Ballado himself was Exceptionally well-bred and may have injected enough of himself into Flame Thrower to offset some otherwise obvious family weaknesses.
At least with Flame Thrower it's clear that he can get horses with plenty of body and bone. They're (for the most part) solid...strong...sturdy...and seem to have some fire in them. For what it's worth...one of the most impressive Flame Throwers that I've ever seen is out of a Valid Appeal mare.
Regarding Sweetsouthernsaint...he's showing signs that he is worthy of some attention...but reality is he does not have a front page graded stakes-winner at a premier race track (at least not yet). And his recent stakes-winner General John B won on a muddy track at Turf Paradise...that's just not going to convince me that breeders should drop everything and move to his camp...although I tip my hat.
If what Sweetsouthernsaint has done so far convinces you that he's the direction to go...and the stud fee makes sense...Sweetsouthernsaint may be the stallion for you. My understanding is that they're playing hard-to-get and the "stud-fee-game" right now.
Regardless I like the Flame Throwers I've seen...and many seem to have a "sizzle" about them.
Alysweep might be worth a roll of the dice...but I hear nothing (good OR bad) about him. You can draw your own conclusions.
You wrote "...I am also looking for the commercial side..."...and that's certainly understandable. All Things Considered (although arguably there is always a risk)...I believe that Flame Thrower offers the kind of upside potential that could put a big smile on your face.
And if the worst thing that happens is that he has average success...it's probably fair to say that you still have a high probability of getting the kind of individual (at least based on what I've seen) that may serve you well at the sales.
Re: Snuck In...he's also a nice horse and may be successful...but I still sense that the loudest "buzz" (as far as the 4 stallions you've listed is concerned) surrounds Flame Thrower.
Derby2004...if there were no risks involved...everyone would be breeding horses for profit. Reality is...it can be a very tough game to play...but you sound like your ready to step-in and deal with the pressures...including the highs and lows.
I am confident that you have done your due diligence (including evaluating each stallion's and your mare's various qualities...strengths and weaknesses and how they might impact each other).
Only you know exactly who and what your mare is...and All Things Considered...I suggest that your final stallion selection should untimately be made with the goal of potentially producing the best possible foal from your mare.
Best to you.
Respectfully
For starters...there's always a risk. But if you are willing to take a calculated one...I suggest that the upside could be good with Flame Thrower...and the downside is somewhat limited (at least for a while).
Consider this...Flame Thrower was very well represented at the sales...and as llbean wrote, the numbers were quite good (All Things Considered).
Also...Flame Thrower was a brilliant...and very game two-year-old...not just another 2-year-old stakes-winner. He was quite special. I suggest that may bode well for what he might deliver. But even if they don't set the world on fire at the races...his offspring were apparently well-liked enough overall to attract many "real" buyers willing to pay some pretty good prices. I suggest that there is always a good market for "racy" looking...strong...athletic types that have that early "look." It's probably fair to say that Flame Thrower fits that bill.
His female family has not stopped buyers from showing legit interest in his offspring...and don't forget...Saint Ballado himself was Exceptionally well-bred and may have injected enough of himself into Flame Thrower to offset some otherwise obvious family weaknesses.
At least with Flame Thrower it's clear that he can get horses with plenty of body and bone. They're (for the most part) solid...strong...sturdy...and seem to have some fire in them. For what it's worth...one of the most impressive Flame Throwers that I've ever seen is out of a Valid Appeal mare.
Regarding Sweetsouthernsaint...he's showing signs that he is worthy of some attention...but reality is he does not have a front page graded stakes-winner at a premier race track (at least not yet). And his recent stakes-winner General John B won on a muddy track at Turf Paradise...that's just not going to convince me that breeders should drop everything and move to his camp...although I tip my hat.
If what Sweetsouthernsaint has done so far convinces you that he's the direction to go...and the stud fee makes sense...Sweetsouthernsaint may be the stallion for you. My understanding is that they're playing hard-to-get and the "stud-fee-game" right now.
Regardless I like the Flame Throwers I've seen...and many seem to have a "sizzle" about them.
Alysweep might be worth a roll of the dice...but I hear nothing (good OR bad) about him. You can draw your own conclusions.
You wrote "...I am also looking for the commercial side..."...and that's certainly understandable. All Things Considered (although arguably there is always a risk)...I believe that Flame Thrower offers the kind of upside potential that could put a big smile on your face.
And if the worst thing that happens is that he has average success...it's probably fair to say that you still have a high probability of getting the kind of individual (at least based on what I've seen) that may serve you well at the sales.
Re: Snuck In...he's also a nice horse and may be successful...but I still sense that the loudest "buzz" (as far as the 4 stallions you've listed is concerned) surrounds Flame Thrower.
Derby2004...if there were no risks involved...everyone would be breeding horses for profit. Reality is...it can be a very tough game to play...but you sound like your ready to step-in and deal with the pressures...including the highs and lows.
I am confident that you have done your due diligence (including evaluating each stallion's and your mare's various qualities...strengths and weaknesses and how they might impact each other).
Only you know exactly who and what your mare is...and All Things Considered...I suggest that your final stallion selection should untimately be made with the goal of potentially producing the best possible foal from your mare.
Best to you.
Respectfully