This is a deep into history question.

[vineyridge]

The only other sireline that is listed that is for modern sport horses besides the 3 TB foundation sires is a horse named Achill, 1848, Holsteiner foundation sire. He traces through some Cleveland Bay imports to a horse named Harpham Turk, or maybe just Turk. I've found a reference in a book from the 1890's that says the Harpham Turk was sired by Ruler xx. Ruler xx is a son of Young Marske. There is another school that says Harpham Turk was by Bedalian xx, but he isn't in PQ either. He's Beningborough x Constantia x Walnut.

PQ has nothing on Harpham Turk, and since he was a foundation for the Cleveland Bay he might not have been pure and/or in the GSB, nor is he listed as being an offspring of Ruler here and Bedilian isn't even in the database. The Germans say the Harpham Turk was a TB, though. He was owned by a Mr. Walmsley in Yorkshire.

Can anyone help me with this? I'd love it if the only other sire line in sport horses actually traces back to a TB who is Darley Arabian but not Eclipse.

[Firebrand]

Most of the information that I've found is for the Harpham Arabian, but judging from the dates, I don't think this is the same horse you're looking for.

http://www.bloodlines.net/TB/Summaries/ ... ionGrahams

I did see a reference in an Australian newspaper dated 1841 that the Harpham Turk was once sold to the Emperor of Russia for 500 Guineas, but that was the extent of the information.

[xfactor fan]

There's a notation in the Sporthorse database that he was sold to the King of Prussia. Maybe he went to Prussia instead of Russia.

[parlo]

Interesting thread, I found this:

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/achill3


Shall I try to get contact to the Holsteiner Zuchtverband? You can find this organization by yourself, too. Seach for "Holsteiner Pferd" at Google :

http://www.holsteiner-verband.de/cms/fr ... angelang=1


Other links that could bear some information concerning this topic might be:

http://www.reitforum.de/angst-um-die-al ... 30120.html

http://www.horsetelex.de/pedigree.php?horseid=145749

http://www.holsteiner-johannsen.de/pfer ... vaeter.htm <==

[vineyridge]

I've found two different pedigrees for Harpham Turk. One is the one that is in allbreed.

Then there is the one that is on both the Paardenfokken.nl database here:
http://www.paardenfokken.nl/search.php? ... rpham+Turk
I've seen both cited by other sources.

It would be interesting to find out what the Holsteiner officials think is the correct pedigree.

I don't read or speak German, so if you would be willing to help with this, it would be greatly appreciated.

[parlo]

My letter to "Verband der Züchter des Holsteiner Pferdes" concerning your question is "en route".

Let's see, what will happen.

[parlo]

I promptly got a surprising answer from the Holsteiner Zuchtverband:

There are 2 Harpham Turks in pedigrees of Holsteiner horses. That in Achill's pedigree is by Ruler, the other one is by Bedalian.

(@vineyridge: I send you an email with the complete original text of that email.)

[vineyridge]

so the Young Marske sireline is alive and well in sport horse land, per the Verband, keepers of the studbook.

Thanks, Parlo. That's pretty interesting, since one wouldn't have thought that there would have been two different horses by that name, both used in Holstein for breeding at about the same time. Very odd, since we're talking very early 1800's.

I just put Bedalian in the database. He's listed as a descendant of Constantia x Walnut x Contessina in the Family 19 tree on TBHeritage.