Interesting Lasix/Breeding stock observation made..

[Crystal]

So a friend of mine and I were talking of the new KYDerby point system and the phasing out of Lasix, etc.. and breeding stock came up.

If it so goes as far as to limit breeding stock to only non bleeders.

Would this..
A) Up the value of un raced stock?
B) Phase out known lines of bleeders?
C) Increase the value of lesser known stock? (i.e. obscure stock that for whatever reason had gone to the track, raced a few times and retired but never raced enough to warrent lasix

or D..

Increase the value of high end stock evenmore so to the point it was priced/sold way beyond it's actual pre-lasix phase out market value.

[BenB]

Some will raise in value, and others will shown a decreased value.

One have to realize that only 5% or less from the racing stock, will bleed through the nostrils. And probably even less.

Market will change in a couple of yrs, because america has this stuff in use since 1967. Legal everywhere in the US since 1985.

It has to be found out which lines are suffering from bleeding indeed, as the inheritage is quite high.

[mightyhijames]

Some will raise in value, and others will shown a decreased value.

One have to realize that only 5% or less from the racing stock, will bleed through the nostrils. And probably even less.

Market will change in a couple of yrs, because america has this stuff in use since 1967. Legal everywhere in the US since 1985.

It has to be found out which lines are suffering from bleeding indeed, as the inheritage is quite high.

you have a pm

[Patuxet]

How "clean" are sales 2YO's supposed to be when they breeze?

Seems like it would be a sales advantage now to breeze w/o lasix.

[TJ]

How "clean" are sales 2YO's supposed to be when they breeze?

Seems like it would be a sales advantage now to breeze w/o lasix.

Hi Patuxet,
Banned substances class 1 and 2 (as listed in the RCI Rules) lasix, bronchial-dilators are not permitted to be given on the sales grounds. Exogenous anabolic steroids are not permitted within 45 days of the sale. All allowed meds are permitted and monitored with in depth paper work from the administering vets. Random blood samples are taken by OBS and any buyer has the right to ask for a blood test on any horse they purchase at time of sale for anabolic steroids. Purchasers can also request a blood sample 24 hours prior to purchase ...and if positive will allow for a reversal of sale. Acupuncture, shock wave therapy, any electrical machines/devices to increase the speed of a horse internal blistering or invasive practice which would conceal a horses normal way of going is not allowed. These are some of the basics...the use of the whip is also limited unless in an emergency...the whip may be used within the last 1/8th of a mile but you cannot strike the horse behind the girth and both hands must remain on the reigns. Spurs are not allowed. That's some of the precautions set in place for the upcoming Florida sale of two year old's......it is more in depth than what I described with other restrictions, but this is the general idea. Their under tack show started yesterday and will conclude tomorrow. The sale begins June 19th and ends June 20th. TJ

[Patuxet]

Thanks, TJ. As usual you are a fount of good information.

[ireneinwa]

http://www.thinkythings.org/horseracing/lasixinfo.html

Link to lasix info

[BenB]

One have to understand, that the USA is the only jurisdiction in the world where lasix is approved, and no other countries in the world are having problems without the stuff.

Lasix is an proven diurectic, and any diurectics are prohibited in all the jurisdictions around the world except in the USA.

Any diurectic is by it,s nature an race enhacer, and therefore are prohibited.

The real source in the problems lies within the fact that, any bleeder is worthless overhere.

So if you have breed and raced a horse that,s a bleeder there will be a loss of money and or capital. I,ve lost 100 K myself.

[winds]

All horses bleed. Just like all human athletes bleed during excercise. Have you not run for a distance and when you stop taste blood. It just depends on the amount that you bleed. Because of this and thanks to endoscopic exams, horses with minor bleeding ( such as what human athletes do ) can be put on lasix. So, that being said, not all horses are "true bleeders". To me a "true bleeder " is one that bleeds out the nostrils. At which point, if they do that they get time off and can/should recieve lasix. It doesn't improve their talent, it just allows them to run at the best of their capabilities without imparement.

winds

[TJ]

One have to understand, that the USA is the only jurisdiction in the world where lasix is approved, and no other countries in the world are having problems without the stuff.

Lasix is an proven diurectic, and any diurectics are prohibited in all the jurisdictions around the world except in the USA.

Any diurectic is by it,s nature an race enhacer, and therefore are prohibited.

The real source in the problems lies within the fact that, any bleeder is worthless overhere.

So if you have breed and raced a horse that,s a bleeder there will be a loss of money and or capital. I,ve lost 100 K myself.

Hi Ben,
Horses will bleed, no matter where they run...it goes hand in hand with horses running at total capacity. Something has to give and usually does. There are herbal formula's and adjunct bleeder medications that work better than lasix which are given to horses running in Europe, some of the adjunct bleeder meds are not always tested for but when they are will be found (read about this below)....there are undetectable pain killers used in Europe that makes bute look like a lollipop. Case in point, Biancone and his snake venum....Vegetable oil nerve blockers, blood doping etc. Euro racing looks clean on the outside...in my opinion, it's just as unscrupulous as the rest of the racing world, they just keep a tighter lid on the truth. TJ
For instance, this from the NYTHA website......." European trainers have been known to use adjunct bleeder medications in competition. Nick Henderson had a positive for Tranexamic Acid in 2009 with a steeplechase horse owned by The Queen. Henderson’s response to the positive? "I was very surprised," he told The Guardian. "I didn't think we had administered anything terribly illegal...” He told a panel of the Royal College of Veterinary Services convened to hear the case that “plenty of trainers” were using the banned medication, and concluded, “The horse was not doped. She was given a drug for her own benefit.”

[BenB]

People are acting in their own financial benefit, and not in the benefit of the horse.

Any horse that needs medication in order to run, should not been running.
Theraputic medications are just medications as there is no difference between them. Preventing something that will not occur in 95% from the breed is not a logical thing to do.

Notice: a horse will bleed first almost not visably,maybe a drop of blood in her nostrils, than it will become rapidly worse. As the outside from the lung cells are raptured. Each time the destroyment will become more and more.

I gave my filly away as I did not allow her to be bred and or raced, so I delivered her papers at the jockeyclub for destroyment.

This because there is a large inheritance in bleeding.

[ElPrado]

What is "terribly illegal"? Is it different from "a little bit illegal"? Inquiring minds want to know. If a substance is banned, it's banned.
The Queen should have hit him on the head with her sceptre.

[BenB]

Henderson was fined got to pay 60000 dollar, and rulled off for three months.

In my humble opinion, the rulling off should be much longer and in an other timeframe. But the case is closed and everybody got the warning.

[TJ]

People are acting in their own financial benefit, and not in the benefit of the horse.

Any horse that needs medication in order to run, should not been running.
Theraputic medications are just medications as there is no difference between them. Preventing something that will not occur in 95% from the breed is not a logical thing to do.

Notice: a horse will bleed first almost not visably,maybe a drop of blood in her nostrils, than it will become rapidly worse. As the outside from the lung cells are raptured. Each time the destroyment will become more and more.

I gave my filly away as I did not allow her to be bred and or raced, so I delivered her papers at the jockeyclub for destroyment.

This because there is a large inheritance in bleeding.

Hi Ben,
Widespread Lasix use came to pass here in America in the 1970's when endoscopic exams became available and proved without a doubt horses bled when they raced. Scoping a horses respiratory tract became common practice and Vets noted widespread bleeding in the lungs....this ranged anywhere on the low side as uncomfortable to distressing for the horse to in worst case scenario's death. Therefore Lasix was adopted into American racing to aid in preventing this useless suffering in our horses. Lasix is very beneficial to horses who bleed and it certainly is not only 5% as you say...it's 10-15 times that. Not only here in the US but in Europe as well. Most trainers in Europe will administer lasix in a strong gallop to prevent the possibility of them having a full blown episode of EIPH. If you wait till you see it coming out their nostril's you waited too long to help your horse....creating a possibility of a full blown bleeder who would have to be retired from racing. If people scoped their horses after a serious workout or poor performance, they would most likely find out that their horse bled. With an increase in scientific medicine, it is proven that horses bleed inside from their lungs better than 60% of the time...even without a trickle of blood from their nostril's...or in serious bleeder's actual gushing from the nostrils. Here are some findings by recognized Veterinarian leaders from countries other than the USA, who report on some of their research concerning EIPH....these are industry standard reports published in The Journal of The American Veterinarian Medical Association July 2009 edition. TJ
"....Dr. Ken Hinchcliff, the recognized leader in EIPH research, was lead author on studies conducted in Australia and South Africa, which proved definitively that EIPH affects the majority of Thoroughbred racehorses. The results from his Australian study, released in 2005, determined that 55% of horses suffered some level of EIPH, and was the first to clearly demonstrate the connection between EIPH and poor performance Subsequent studies have found that the prevalence of EIPH is even higher. If you scope a horse after three successive strenuous workouts, nearly 100% will be diagnosed with EIPH by the third scope.
Dr. Hinchcliff then set out to determine if the most common treatment for EIPH, the administration of Lasix, was, in fact, effective. The results of the study, conducted under racing conditions in South Africa, were published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association in July of 2009.
Not only was the study able to quantify the impact on performance with regard to the severity of the EIPH, but proved that Lasix was highly effective in alleviating the condition. A small percentage of the 152 horses involved in the study evidenced the highest degree of bleeding without Lasix-grades 3 and 4--but not a single horse evidenced a grade higher than 2 after the administration of Lasix. Twice as many horses were completely unaffected by EIPH when treated with Lasix as when racing without it....."

[winds]

People are acting in their own financial benefit, and not in the benefit of the horse.

Any horse that needs medication in order to run, should not been running.
Theraputic medications are just medications as there is no difference between them. Preventing something that will not occur in 95% from the breed is not a logical thing to do.

Notice: a horse will bleed first almost not visably,maybe a drop of blood in her nostrils, than it will become rapidly worse. As the outside from the lung cells are raptured. Each time the destroyment will become more and more.

I gave my filly away as I did not allow her to be bred and or raced, so I delivered her papers at the jockeyclub for destroyment.

This because there is a large inheritance in bleeding.

Hi Ben,
Widespread Lasix use came to pass here in America in the 1970's when endoscopic exams became available and proved without a doubt horses bled when they raced. Scoping a horses respiratory tract became common practice and Vets noted widespread bleeding in the lungs....this ranged anywhere on the low side as uncomfortable to distressing for the horse to in worst case scenario's death. Therefore Lasix was adopted into American racing to aid in preventing this useless suffering in our horses. Lasix is very beneficial to horses who bleed and it certainly is not only 5% as you say...it's 10-15 times that. Not only here in the US but in Europe as well. Most trainers in Europe will administer lasix in a strong gallop to prevent the possibility of them having a full blown episode of EIPH. If you wait till you see it coming out their nostril's you waited too long to help your horse....creating a possibility of a full blown bleeder who would have to be retired from racing. If people scoped their horses after a serious workout or poor performance, they would most likely find out that their horse bled. With an increase in scientific medicine, it is proven that horses bleed inside from their lungs better than 60% of the time...even without a trickle of blood from their nostril's...or in serious bleeder's actual gushing from the nostrils. Here are some findings by recognized Veterinarian leaders from countries other than the USA, who report on some of their research concerning EIPH....these are industry standard reports published in The Journal of The American Veterinarian Medical Association July 2009 edition. TJ
"....Dr. Ken Hinchcliff, the recognized leader in EIPH research, was lead author on studies conducted in Australia and South Africa, which proved definitively that EIPH affects the majority of Thoroughbred racehorses. The results from his Australian study, released in 2005, determined that 55% of horses suffered some level of EIPH, and was the first to clearly demonstrate the connection between EIPH and poor performance Subsequent studies have found that the prevalence of EIPH is even higher. If you scope a horse after three successive strenuous workouts, nearly 100% will be diagnosed with EIPH by the third scope.
Dr. Hinchcliff then set out to determine if the most common treatment for EIPH, the administration of Lasix, was, in fact, effective. The results of the study, conducted under racing conditions in South Africa, were published in the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association in July of 2009.
Not only was the study able to quantify the impact on performance with regard to the severity of the EIPH, but proved that Lasix was highly effective in alleviating the condition. A small percentage of the 152 horses involved in the study evidenced the highest degree of bleeding without Lasix-grades 3 and 4--but not a single horse evidenced a grade higher than 2 after the administration of Lasix. Twice as many horses were completely unaffected by EIPH when treated with Lasix as when racing without it....."

Amen!

winds