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 Post subject: mating advice
PostPosted: Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:53 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:30 pm
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As the proud owner of a single maiden mare in the UK,I am about to chose a stallion for her first cover. She is by Kyllachy x kootenay by selkirk. She is a 3 time winner over 7f/8f in class 4 handicaps. 15.3 h and very good topline. Good looking. Quite correct in front with no obvious confirmation faults. Dam a 3x listed winner, group placed, but has produced nothing as good as herself. My mares 3/4 ( pivotal) sister has produced 2 good animals. I want to retain this mare long term so I need a proven stallion whose progeny sell well. My max stud fee is 12k gbp.

My short list is:

fast company- lovely hypo pedigree , produces winners, but doesn't make money. People would think I was mad.

Bated breath- supposedly a good nick, sire very popular. makes money from good looking stock, but slightly disappointing.
hasn't done well with close relatives to my mare. Perhaps the obvious choice but i am wary.

Dream ahead--produces winners at all levels but strangely unpopular at the sales. I like this sire.

Tamayuz- produces winners at all levels and very good sales results. Probably not universally popular ( nayef ).
hypo pedigree 2x5 nureyev but otherwise difficult to evaluate. Maybe the best value v foal sale v race ability.

Given that her dam is a half sister to sans frontiers and hans hobein a galileo stallion would be a great fit. However though lots available, too expensive and unproven. Maybe later. Iffraaj also obvious but unaffordable. Dutch art gone cold.

I am about to go with tamayuz. I would appreciate comments and any other recommendation


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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:19 pm 
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Are you breeding to race the foal(s) yourself or sell them? Makes all the difference in the US, as the market here likes what it likes and you need to fit that profile (i.e. high crusing speed very desirable). The needs in the Euro market are different, but there is no substitute for speed in the stallion's race record, particularly if he could carry it a distance of ground. In the US, even the best of stayers are shunned.

jm

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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:21 am 
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Joined: Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:30 pm
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The market is not so different in the UK. Pinhookers particularly focus on speed and many breeders look for early returns with speed stallions. All those new galileo stallions might find it difficult to fill their nominations.They won't all be frankel.
I need to sell the first one or two foals and hopefully get to keep one later. My stallion short list are all 6f sprinters with the exception of tamayuz who was a top class miler. They all produce 6f/8f sprinter milers though tamayuz produce can get further.. Since my mare is by Kyllachy ( pure speed} and won over 7 and 8 furlongs, I expect this mating to result in a miler which can hopefully win over shorter as a 2 year old. If all goes well I will probably do something similar with a second mating before taking a few more risks later. I appreciate your response.


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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:13 am 
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Breeder's Cup Contender

Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:43 pm
Posts: 1768
Have you looked at Starspangledbanner?

He was FAST on the track and he's had good enough results with his first crops (The Wow Signal, etc) that in spite of fertility problems, he was very intensely managed and now is getting well over 60 foals in a season.

He has a 6-time winner out of a Kyllachy mare who has made over GBP 58,000 on the track. Of his stakes winning offspring, he's been remarkably agnostic in terms of what mares he gets successful offspring from.

His fee is a shade over your max (E15,000 = about GBP 13,200), but with that kind of potential ROI at the sales you might be able to find a partner and go in on him, or to negotiate the fee.


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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 8:53 am 
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Suckling

Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2007 1:13 am
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Location: Kingdom of Kerry
Hi Jimmymac,

I would revisit your thinking on Dutch Art. His fee is back down to a reasonable 15k which gives you a good chance of a commercial return given that his yearling median was 40000 guineas in 2017 and an average of 53000 guineas. That's not bad for a stallion who has 'gone quiet'. Admittedly those returns were for a crop bred of a £40,000 fee (so not great for those vendors) but from your point of view you will be selling when the offspring of his most expensive crops are in their prime so their should be an upturn in his fortunes on the track. Dutch Art has sired Garswood out of a Kyllachy mare and Zonderland (and a few other more than useful types out of Pivotal mares)- although much of this can be accounted for by opportunity given all the cheveley park owned mares he covered.
With normal luck I'd predict something like £30,000 for a yearling colt and £22,000 for a filly. You mightnt get rich but you should make a profit. Just as importantly you are starting off your mare with a proven good stallion and hopefully getting a winner under her name from the start- which is vital to long term returns.


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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:10 am 
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I must admit to having no real knowledge at all about the current best bloodines and crosses in your market - I will just comment that generally speaking, milers usually make the best sires of racehorses. The 6f stallions can get you a quarter horse and the classic guys can get you a steeplechaser while a miler is more likely to get you a 6-9 furlong horse.

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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Sun Feb 18, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Any thought about Slade Power. Mult G1 sprinter son, has had solid yearling sales. Son of Dutch Art with upside perhaps? Similar Cross prod. G1sw Garwood out of Kyllachy mare.

jm

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 Post subject: Re: mating advice
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:00 pm 
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I don't know if you've already found a date for your mare, but if not, have a look at Camelot.

He has Sadler's Wells WITHOUT Shirley Heights/Mill Reef (so, a good target there) and more importantly Kingmambo on the bottom line. Pivotal has had decent success with Kingmambo mares, including Gr-1 winner Regal Parade, Gr-3 winner Rosa Imperial and her Listed-winning full sister Rosental, and US stakes-placed Minute Limit. He also has a nice line to high-class speed source Grey Sovereign via Zeddan and Perseopolis to tie into Pivotal's Cozzene and two lines to Special.

His sire Montjeu's top-class son Hurricane Run's second dam was by Selkirk's sire Sharpen Up, and his top-class but ill-fated son St. Nicholas Abbey's dam was from the Sharpen Up line.

He was early enough to win a 1600m Gr-1 as a juvenile, fast enough to win a Gr-1 at 1600m as a 3yo and tough enough to win at 2400m the same year, and his first crop is off to a decent start. He's standing for only EUR 8,000 which is a lot of horse for not a lot of fee.


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