What would you do?

[Bondama]

Most of you here are generally very knowledgeable and helpful, and honest with your thoughts too! So I solicit your opinions on this peculiar situation.

I own a nice bay TB mare who came to me without her JC papers, so I guess that makes her considered "grade". The story is that she was bred to race by a guy named Greg Daniels from Reddick, Fla. (near Ocala). When it was determined she wasn't suited to racing, he sent her along with a group of other 2-year olds to the OBS. She was purchased outside, BEFORE the sale, from the guy who transported her, and we only know the owners name because it was on the bill of sale. The lady who bought the mare didn't care about papers because it was never her intention to breed her or sell her. Plans have a way of changing, however, don't they?

She eventually did sell her....to me. In my efforts to try and find this Daniels guy, I have called the Florida TB Breeders & Owners Assn. who says they don't know him. I called the OBS and he's not on their mailing list, unless he uses a farm name, which we don't know. OBS also said that if she was bought before she actually went through the sale, they wouldn't have any records based on the buyer's name either. I hired a private investigator to try and find him, and there are 77 Greg Daniels in Florida, but none in the Ocala or surrounding area.

Am I just wasting my time, or is there some other thing I can do that anyone can think of? The reason for my searching is not so much for the mare, but more for her the foal she had last week. I mean, yes, I would love to know who this mare "is" pedigree-wise, etc., but also want the foal to have registry opportunities as well. She's a pretty little buckskin sabino filly (posted pics in Foal section) and to me, too nice to remain "grade".

Your thoughts and suggestions will be appreciated as always.

B

[cewright]

Parking lot deals can be some of the sleaziest in the horse business. Almost by definition, the seller is trying to avoid some sort of accountability when selling this way, particularly before the sale. The issue may be as simple as wanting to avoid the auction commission or it may be more sinister. Horses sold without papers in the parking lot may be misrepresented as to ownership, pedigree, age, health, soundness etc. They are often cash transactions so there is little or no paper trail. Buyers who enter into these transactions often are taken advantage of.

I am a little concerned about the OBS story. Wouldn't the horses have been preregistered for a catalogue sale like that? To just show up with horses to sell at an auction sounds more like your average monthly local livestock sale rather than the OBS.

I have chased papers with much better information than you have without success. My advice to you is to enjoy your baby, it is gorgeous, and chalk the lack of registration up to experience.

My $0.02.

Chuck

[summerhorse]

Call the auction houses and vets. He is probably a dealer and they probably would know how to get in touch with him. I wouldn't count on him remembering who he bought them from though. =( But ya never know. Otherwise I guess sit down with the phone book and start dialing! The worst they can do is say No, not me.

[fliteKAT]

did you try a tattoo research on her? if you do that it will tell you the last registered owner. im am in a similar situation and i did that and the last registered owner has helped me out more than i ever thought possible.
but if what cewright said is true about your paticular case you might not want to open up that can of worms.....

good luck in your search.

katy

[Bondama]

She is not tattooed. She was race trained but "not fast enough" so never made it to the track.

Good idea to contact local vets and other auction houses. I was also thinking of putting some flyers in the area feed stores.

[geowarrior]

If she was race trained, do you know the trainer or the trainer's name? My logic is that if she was being aimed for the races, at the time she was training her papers must have been available, and the trainer might remember some detail that would help.

[Bondama]

No, all I know is at the top.

[geowarrior]

This would be an extreme long shot, but I might try some of the places in Florida that break youngsters for racing to see if they have heard of this Greg Daniels character. If he had a habit of sending groups of young horses for training one of these places might know of him. Lambholme (sp.?) is one place that I know of.

[summerhorse]

Kind of sounds like this story: http://www.brightfuturesfarm.org/Darlin ... 20page.htm
Maybe this is the sale barn she went through?

[madelyn]

The tale sounds pretty fishy. Ocala is a cataloged sale and horses are not allowed to be sold "outside" like that. If a deal like that goes down, the horse still has to go through the sales ring. I HAVE bought a mare out back AFTER Keeneland and she failed to get a $1K bid.

With no tattoo, no idea of her registered name, and no parentage information, your mare is a grade mare. It is a hard, and probably expensive, lesson. Because you now have a stunning buckskin that can't get Appendix papers.

In the days before DNA, horse traders kept boxes full of registration papers in their trucks. If they had come across a mare like yours, they would have rooted through until they found an approximate match (age, color, markings, etc.) and "paired" her up with a set. I don't know how the AQHA regulates its Appendix registry (do they DNA the mare?) That sort of thing is at least immoral, if not downright illegal.

It is a sad state of affairs. But rather than spend more money chasing vapors, it might be wise to just buy a registered mare. There is a good market for sound, 16h TB broodmares for embryo transplant. Papers are not necessary. So your mare COULD find a job doing that.

[Bondama]

Madelyn, yes AQHA does DNA now. Had to do that with 2 of my other mares recently, but no problems because they're both already registered both with JC and AQHA.

I've been in touch with the American Appendix Horse Assn. and they do have a "hardship" consideration application. It may be a slim chance, but I'm going to give it a shot. They ask for pictures, names of sire and dam, even if they are just generic names, a $30- membership fee and a $45 registration fee. The only part of the parentage that comes into question is whether the dam IS in fact a thoroughbred. Sire is AQHA/APHA registered and not questionable. Their board will take into consideration all the information I can supply and render a decision. I've been told I'm pretty mighty with the pen, so perhaps I can write a compelling enough letter that, together with the pictures, their hearts will be moved to register her!

How could they not love this baby??

[img][img]http://inlinethumb40.webshots.com/3303/2484843210085531741S425x425Q85.jpg[/img][/img]

[habitat]

if there is a Greg Daniels in the horse trading business in Florida you might start looking at classifieds for the ocala and Florida areas.

[skeenan]

She was purchased outside, BEFORE the sale, from the guy who transported her, and we only know the owners name because it was on the bill of sale. The lady who bought the mare didn't care about papers because it was never her intention to breed her or sell her.

The lady who bought her, did she get her from the transporter guy? If so, would she remember the transport company, if it was a company? Maybe they would have a record somewhere...?

[Marli]

I would go with the suggestion to print and post some flyers in/around the local auctions/sales grounds. Just give the pertinent info, you never know who might read it and recognize the name. Also, there are Ocala classifieds on-line-

http://www.ocala4sale.com/animals/horse-breeds-3.php#Thoroughbreds

If you have anything by way of a phone number, someone elses name (somehow involved in this situation), you might want to scan down over these classifieds to see if you get any matchs. Heck, probably wouldn't hurt to post an ad yourself seeking info. Personally, I don't believe the story that she was entered in the OBS. Like the others have said, horses are consigned to that sale 8-10 weeks prior. I don't have knowledge of whether or not dealers can show up there as well to scavenge around for those that no -sale once through the ring, but it just doesn't jive for me. Your new addition is beautiful!!