Invasor

Richard · Postby **Richard** » Sat Oct 13, 2007 7:03 pm

What do you think of Ivasor as a stallion, my friend has been offered a season, ( Images in Jade ) by Jade Hunter ? breed to race.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:38 am

In my opinion it's folly to breed an unproven broodmare to an unproven stallion if you're breeding to race. You're doubling your chances of not getting a runner.

Richard · Postby **Richard** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:18 am

Her first runner ran his second race Fiiday @ Belmont 9th race, finished
4th, MSW $46,000. with much improvement, and good reports.
All sires were unproven when they started out. What do you think of
the mating ?

Richard

halo · Postby **halo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 3:47 am

Getting beat 14 lengths by state bred maidens is a much improved race? Im with Maven; Id stick with a proven horse. If that mare can't produce a runner by Regal Classic and American Chance, who are as proven as they get, Im not sure what Invasor can do for her, other than letting you say "he's by Invasor."

Richard · Postby **Richard** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 4:12 am

The Regal Classic had to be stopped on, he's ready now. He hase'nt
raced yet , but you condem him without knowing. I asked for mating
opinion. I'm not worried about the American Chance, he will be fine.

halo · Postby **halo** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 5:11 am

Where do you get condemning from? I just go by what I see. So far this mare hasnt produced a runner to even place, much less a winner. And you're talking about breeding to race to a stallion who hasnt even bred his first mare, much less has a foal on the ground. Without knowing what type foals he will produce, its difficult to breed to him to race, not to mention the fact that the South American stallions have a pretty pitiful record in America for producing runners. There are far better stallions in NY to breed to race, if that is your intent. However, that being said, if you want to breed your mare to Invasor because you want to, then do it. I would assume you have a good idea of what type foal the mare produces, and that you've seen Invasor, and that the physical types compliment and there are no glaring issues. At this point theres not much else you can go on.

Richard · Postby **Richard** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 6:04 am

Ibeleive in this mare, and you're right about body types ect. I was
looking for more on pedigree match up.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 10:59 am

If you're set on the Invasor cross it's not "bad". I'm not sure I love the doubling up of Lyphard but it is sex-balanced and through quality individuals. A double of Nasrullah is never a bad thing in my mind so that's a plus.

The real issue I have is the whole breeding game is about luck and you have to try and take as many variables out of the picture as possible. It's great that you believe in your mare, but do you really believe in Invasor that much?

I'm not saying he will fail, but the cards are certainly stacked against him in many ways.

I would highly recommend breeding to a proven stallion with known crosses with the mare you have. They're out there. But again, if you're dead set on Invasor, the cross isn't horrible.

I would highly recommending pm'ing poster Kimberley Mine... she's very familiar and well versed in the S. American bloodlines and she often sees positive in their pedigrees that I do not.

Good luck either way.

Richard · Postby **Richard** » Sun Oct 14, 2007 12:24 pm

Thanks for your time and info, and your recomendation.

Richard

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 7:20 am

Hi Richard,

I told you my mating opinion in the PM but I'm going to throw one or two extra things out there for you (and everybody else) to consider.

If your goal is to bring the foals to the races yourself, there is no point in going for a fee over $20,000. For this mare, I wouldn't spend more than $15,000 and would try to stay in the $5k-$10k range. The lower the starting fee, the less money the foal will need to earn to turn a profit (or merely to break even). If you enter this mare into a statebred program, breeders awards and restricted races will help you with that even more.

Second, believing in your mare and being realistic about her potential in the shed are not mutually exclusive. I see her as a sound, solid, honest runner who should produce more of the same when thoughtfully bred. I don't see her as the kind of mare who will, based on her family's production and bloodlines that worked best with her family, produce well enough with Invasor to recoup the immediate hit of a $35,000 fee AND a 2/3 chance that he will fail (as do most unproven sires).

chicago78 · Postby **chicago78** » Tue Oct 16, 2007 12:43 pm

It's sort of a catch 22 with a lot of young sires. Invasor doesn't look like he's going to be commercial as an unproven sire, so he's inherently going to be breed to race, and people on this board are going to be calling out for people to give a horse like Invasor a shot. On paper, the cross looks okay. For the money, I think you could do better, and also think that it may be overbreeding this particular mare to Invasor.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 5:01 am

chicago78 wrote:It's sort of a catch 22 with a lot of young sires. Invasor doesn't look like he's going to be commercial as an unproven sire, so he's inherently going to be breed to race, and people on this board are going to be calling out for people to give a horse like Invasor a shot. On paper, the cross looks okay. For the money, I think you could do better, and also think that it may be overbreeding this particular mare to Invasor.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Invasor is NOT a horse who will do well with your garden-variety Storm Cat, Mr Prospector, or AP Indy mare. I suspect the Sheiks knew that and that is why he is at Shadwell instead of Darley. Most South American-bred stallions have extreme difficulty at stud in the US. It will take extremely careful breeding to get success, and a whole lot of luck on top of that.

I think there are two strains common in North America that are more likely to bring success with Invasor than any other: Dr Fager/Great Above and Halo/Roberto. About the only Mr P-line horse I've found with whom Candy Stripes had much success was Lundy's Liability (BRZ) whose dam was royally bred (Geiger Counter--Nijinsy II--Forli--Round Table--Hail to Reason).

hpkingjr · Postby **hpkingjr** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 6:06 am

I have enjoyed the posts and insights on this thread. Since I am by nature less inclined to try to hit the hard ways at the craps table, I might think about Leroidesanimaux for your mare. The pedigree match is very similar to Invasor for half the money. Additionally, Leroy has foals on the ground and by all reports most are very nice, not crooked with ample bone. If they hit on the track, your foal may be commercial as well as your stated goal of breed to race.

Additionally, you may have a heads up on aptitudes by watching Leroy's first foals run. In your plan you will have no other option but to race. Leroy will give you another at half the money. If Invasor works for your mare then chances are Leroy will also. Respectfully.

Richard · Postby **Richard** » Wed Oct 17, 2007 4:03 pm

Thanks to all, Invasor is out, the new flavor of the week
( Lemon Drop Kid ), just got word @ reduced price. I don't want to say how much, it would'nt be right. I havent even looked at it , and won't
tonight, I just don't want you guys working on Invasor any more on my behalf, and I'm sorry to have put you all through the trouble.
Thanks again for all your efforts.
Richard

Kent · Postby **Kent** » Mon Oct 29, 2007 1:04 pm

(my friend has been offered a season, ( Images in Jade ) by Jade Hunter)

Your friend must be mistaken, as I have seen all the mares submitted to Invasor and Images of Jade was not among them.

(I suspect the Sheiks knew that and that is why he is at Shadwell instead of Darley)

Two farms owned by brothers, but no more connection than Claiborne and Stone Farm.