Sales Integrity Task Force
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Read Jess Jackson's "open letter" below as well. I tend to agree with him - very little - if any - "teeth" in anything here.
http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/JSJStatementonSITF.pdf
http://www.bloodhorse.com/pdf/JSJStatementonSITF.pdf
I have a general sales question that I have been unable to find the answer to elsewhere.
If a horse is rejected after the fall of the hammer, for one of the accepted medical reasons (ie: tests positive for steroids, or a broodmare found to be not in foal, etc. etc.) is the sales result somehow cancelled? Or does it still show up as a sale?
If a horse is rejected after the fall of the hammer, for one of the accepted medical reasons (ie: tests positive for steroids, or a broodmare found to be not in foal, etc. etc.) is the sales result somehow cancelled? Or does it still show up as a sale?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
I agree. It's not accurate.
A good recent example... Zounds (Johannesburg) sold for $625,000 at the 2006 Midlantic May sale. He was rejected after the sale for medical reasons that popped up post-breeze, returned to the seller, and resold for a cheaper price to someone else.
Yet he is still listed at $625,000 with the Jocky Club, the price counts toward J-burg's averages, and he is the May sale record.
A good recent example... Zounds (Johannesburg) sold for $625,000 at the 2006 Midlantic May sale. He was rejected after the sale for medical reasons that popped up post-breeze, returned to the seller, and resold for a cheaper price to someone else.
Yet he is still listed at $625,000 with the Jocky Club, the price counts toward J-burg's averages, and he is the May sale record.
madelyn wrote:If a horse is rejected after the fall of the hammer, for one of the accepted medical reasons (ie: tests positive for steroids, or a broodmare found to be not in foal, etc. etc.) is the sales result somehow cancelled? Or does it still show up as a sale?
Out here in podunk-ville, if a sale is rejected, that sale is NOT posted in the results (assuming it is known before the results are posted.) We had that happen at the most recent sale. A mare sold as "believed to be in foal" and after the fall of the hammer it was determined that she was NOT in foal. That sale was rejected and the person who made the winning bid was not listed as the buyer in the sale results.
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"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
Yes Podunk ville does have it right.........
I feel for Jess S. Jackson, I understand what he is saying and something needs to be done and done right. This task force started out on the right foot and some where along the way was hi jacked by the same people it was trying to police.......................
That is why I started my consulting business. If I represent you at the sale, I just get a set fee and expenses, no % of purchase price. This way you are guarenteed I am looking out for you and not my own pocketbook. I will not take any money out side of our agreement. If I find a stallion for your mare and I'm offered some monetary compensation, it will be given to the owner of the mare or I will ask the farm to take the stud fee down x amount.
If I'm being paid by you, to represent you, then that is what I will do. But you wouldn't believe how many owners look at me like I'm speaking a foreign language to them. They've said, but that's not how it's done, and don't you think you deserve compensation.............. I look at them and can't believe what I'm hearing, it's like they want to be cheated...........
Oh well.
winds
I feel for Jess S. Jackson, I understand what he is saying and something needs to be done and done right. This task force started out on the right foot and some where along the way was hi jacked by the same people it was trying to police.......................
That is why I started my consulting business. If I represent you at the sale, I just get a set fee and expenses, no % of purchase price. This way you are guarenteed I am looking out for you and not my own pocketbook. I will not take any money out side of our agreement. If I find a stallion for your mare and I'm offered some monetary compensation, it will be given to the owner of the mare or I will ask the farm to take the stud fee down x amount.
If I'm being paid by you, to represent you, then that is what I will do. But you wouldn't believe how many owners look at me like I'm speaking a foreign language to them. They've said, but that's not how it's done, and don't you think you deserve compensation.............. I look at them and can't believe what I'm hearing, it's like they want to be cheated...........
Oh well.
winds
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Rokeby Forever
- Darley line
- Posts: 6684
- Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 4:52 pm
- Location: Reno, NV
I never understood why some owners pay a commission to his/her trainer based on what the trainer picks out at a sale. That trainer is going to train the horse - isn't it enough compensation that an owner lets a trainer pick out stock that he's going to wind up training?
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
zinn21 wrote:Rogue, I didn't know a sale could be cancelled if a "believed in foal" mare was later found to not be pregnant. Doesn't the term "believed" dismiss the seller from liability?
I can't speak for anything other than Podunk-ville, but the way that the ITOBA sale is set up, a mare is sold as "believed to be in foal" if they have a vet certificate within 10 days of the sale stating that the mare is in foal. If the mare is palpated immediately after the sale and found not to be in foal, that sale can be refused, basically based on the pregnancy status being other than what was represented in the ring.
In the case at our last sale, the vet certificate actually stated that she was NOT in foal, but she went through the ring as "believed to be in foal," so the sale was refused based on that vet certificate. It was an unfortunate case where that catalog update did not make it to the auctioneer in time, and she was inadvertantly misrepresented. So, even though the ticket was signed and the sale was completed, the money was refunded and that sale did not show up on our results.
If the vet certificate had stated that she was in foal and upon palpation immediately following the auction she was found to NOT be in foal, the same would have applied.
**************************************
"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
zinn21 wrote:Rogue, I didn't know a sale could be cancelled if a "believed in foal" mare was later found to not be pregnant. Doesn't the term "believed" dismiss the seller from liability?
Believed to be in foal means that the mare was in foal when checked shortly pre-sale. If she is not in foal a week later after the hammer falls (and the smart buyer has her checked) then the sale can be undone.
Rok,
You would think so. Some trainers don't take the commission, but I'm sure most do. I worked for a Partnership farm, their farm trainer and the vet they have on retainer go to the sales and pick out the horses to buy for their partnership offerings. They split the commission, now he is on retainer and is consulted on all major vet decisions and she gets paid a day rate for breaking, conditioning and laying up all of their horses.
They own the farm, barns etc, she leases stalls from them at a minimal charge, then they pay her a per diem. She's making out all around. The farm pays for the maintenance and all up keep............
It's a nice cushy job, that's for sure. Plus, because she goes to the sales, she gets to meet all the movers and shakers and has them as clients as well. This way she has horses in all the stalls not just the farm owned horses.
winds
You would think so. Some trainers don't take the commission, but I'm sure most do. I worked for a Partnership farm, their farm trainer and the vet they have on retainer go to the sales and pick out the horses to buy for their partnership offerings. They split the commission, now he is on retainer and is consulted on all major vet decisions and she gets paid a day rate for breaking, conditioning and laying up all of their horses.
They own the farm, barns etc, she leases stalls from them at a minimal charge, then they pay her a per diem. She's making out all around. The farm pays for the maintenance and all up keep............
It's a nice cushy job, that's for sure. Plus, because she goes to the sales, she gets to meet all the movers and shakers and has them as clients as well. This way she has horses in all the stalls not just the farm owned horses.
winds
Roke:
I have trainers that do NOT charge commission, but expect to train the horse... and it would be unfair not to let them. I also have trainers that charge 5%. I understand both sides. I watch these guys go through nearly every hip in the book, the physicals, and the xrays. They spend time talking to the consignors, the vets, the breeders. I would want to get paid for that type of work, especially if I didn't train the horse. If however, you DO get to train the horse, you're righ... there should be some kind of consideration.
I have trainers that do NOT charge commission, but expect to train the horse... and it would be unfair not to let them. I also have trainers that charge 5%. I understand both sides. I watch these guys go through nearly every hip in the book, the physicals, and the xrays. They spend time talking to the consignors, the vets, the breeders. I would want to get paid for that type of work, especially if I didn't train the horse. If however, you DO get to train the horse, you're righ... there should be some kind of consideration.