training a horse off a long layoff/injury

[bdw0617]

I am looking at maimonides work out's last morning, and looking at the blazing fast workouts, I just know bob is going to put him in a grade 2 or grade 1 stakes race off his layoff.

that got me tot hinking, and this is espically for the trianers out there. what do you feel is the correct way to treat a horse like this one off an extended layoff. do you 1) put him back where he left off or 2) let him get a "paid workout", maybe not horrible company but comany that isnt' going to take eveything out of him?


I for one do not think maimonides is a grade 2 horse in the first place, but that is a different post. My personal fear is that he will be placed over his head, be reinjurired and that will be the end of the 4.6 million dollar yearling as we know it.

[chicago78]

Good horses that are coming back from injury will often work extremely fast their first few works. They generally have time off, then walk the shed, then jog, gallop, and build up to a work, and they are so happy to finally work, run fast, etc, that they kind of over do it. In his case though, the 59.6 wasn't that quick. I wouldn't think they worked him with anybody, and he's plenty fast to work that quick on his own. He'll likely come back in the Hutchenson, which is 7 furlongs. I think a grade 2.

[Des]

I know back in the days most trainers would place him in a nice allowance race to get him reaquainted to the races. However if a graded race comes up soft enough, there's no reason why he can't be placed there. There are some allowance races that may come up really really tough. So it depends how hard you wanna push him in his first race back.

[chicago78]

I agree. I'd rather run him in an allowance too. But just knowing the trainer and how he does things, I'd have to assume the stake would be the spot. He's training in California to get ready, but they shipped him to the dirt tracks before his maiden race, so they'll probably do that with him again.

[bdw0617]

I agree. I'd rather run him in an allowance too. But just knowing the trainer and how he does things, I'd have to assume the stake would be the spot. He's training in California to get ready, but they shipped him to the dirt tracks before his maiden race, so they'll probably do that with him again.

I would be suprised if he shipped out of socal so quickly. he didn't want to race over Del Mar, I don't think he ha sa problem with Santa anita. he's tearing it up in the workouts.

My guess would be, if he's lu cky


whatever that stakes race is at the first of the year that EZ warrior won this year

San Rafael
Santa Anita Derby
Kentucky Derby


thoose allownece races come up REAL tough.. because you have 10 or so horses that broke their maidens already that have been waiting around, maturing, waiting for a race to come up.

[chicago78]

He could stay out there. I think the sprint stake is the San Vincente. If he runs in that, then that schedule would be the plan, most likely. I'm not sure he's going to want to run the derby distance, but most of them end up not being able to.

Back to the original post, he didn't have a major injury, he just bucked shins, which fast young horses do all the time. He had plenty of time off, too. He has a ton of talent, is extremely well bred, and may end up being an important horse this coming year.

[winds]

I'd probably back my bet with him. Enter him in a stake, and see who else is entered. If it looks like it will come up as too competitive for a first race back, then look at the allowance races.

This way you have something to fall back on.

winds

[Rokeby Forever]

He had plenty of time off, too.

He bucked the end of August and he's working bullets in mid December....that's "plenty of time off?" Wicked Style bucked last month and Rusty Arnold isn't bringing him back until April or May. I come from the days of pinfiring...what do I know, anyway?

Bumblin' Bob is probably smart cranking up Maimonides as fast as possible - Graded Stakes are a lot easier to win early in the season than later. Maybe Maimonides can knock one off before he lasts as long as his sire did.

[geowarrior]

California has had some awfully impressive maiden breakers in the last couple of months. (Or is it just me that thinks that?). Any race for Maimonides, stakes or NW1X allowance or Optional Claimer, could be very challenging. Personally I think a lot depends on how the horse was injured. If the horse connects the injury with the actual race itself, then there is not only a fitness problem to contend with but a confidence problem, in which I would want a slow buildup and an easy slot to begin with, keep him out of the way of the other horses, and give him plenty of reassurance that he's a good horse and that racing is a fun thing. In Maimonides' case, as far as I remember it was bucked shins. So if the problem only has to do with fitness, then it's a question of how confident the trainer is in the healing process that has been carried out. I think we've all seen Baffert, Pletcher, and Asmussen and plenty of others make some very bad judgements on that score just this year.

[bdw0617]

He had plenty of time off, too.

He bucked the end of August and he's working bullets in mid December....that's "plenty of time off?" Wicked Style bucked last month and Rusty Arnold isn't bringing him back until April or May. I come from the days of pinfiring...what do I know, anyway?

Bumblin' Bob is probably smart cranking up Maimonides as fast as possible - Graded Stakes are a lot easier to win early in the season than later. Maybe Maimonides can knock one off before he lasts as long as his sire did.

tell us how you really feel roke, lol

I didn't know wicked style bucked a shin... damnit.. I liked him for the derby too.

he has a grade 1 win however to his credit... he's guranteed a spot in the stud spotlight somewhere

you are actually correct in I dont' see him winning a graded stakes past say.. march

[chicago78]

I'm for pin firing, too. He's worked two half miles in 48 and change and 5/8 in 59.8. If that's bullets, then fine. Baffert works his horses fast. Always has. He's not for me, and I don't send my horses to him, but people know what they're getting when he trains for them. Maimonides had 90 days between his last race and his next work. It's not like he had a major injury.

[Rokeby Forever]

Maimonides did have 90 days between the Hopeful Stakes and his next work, but how much time off did he actually have? Did he van in from a farm and work :48 the next day, or was he kept in training and then worked :48?

I know that the recovery time from a modern day blister is much less than when shins were pinfired, but is that plenty of time to recover from a bucked shin? Bucked shins are not a major injury, but if not properly healed, they can lead to saucer fractures.

[chicago78]

Who even knows how bad the bucked shin was. But it's not in anybody's interest to bring the horse back too soon. I would assume he would have been blistered, kept in the stall for a month, walked for three weeks or a month, jogged for another three weeks, galloped for three weeks, then worked the half mile. That doesn't seem like rushing him. I'm not saying he won't get hurt again. Who knows. But in this case, I think he probably had enough time off.

As for Wicked Style, he had a full 2 year old campaign. With the timing of his injury, it made sense to give him a little bit more time, since they're going to miss the classic preps and the whole triple crown.

[TJ]

Today the use of shockwave therapy is used with great and rapid success for bucked shins. Sometimes healing simple bucked shins in less than 1/2 the normal time. I remember reading that Baffert said he would need 3 weeks after Maimodes bucked his shins. The only way that makes sense is if he used shock wave therapy. The only drawback to this therapy is the trainer must use restarint in not starting one back to soon as after 1 or 2 treatments they usually have no pain. The use of x-rays with this procedure is recommended to monitor progress to prevent an early return to training. TJ

[Rokeby Forever]

Where's that thread on why horses today breakdown so early?