I bought this mare at the Barretts auction yesterday:
http://www.barretts.com/catalog/catjan08/pdf/292.pdf
I mostly bought her because I felt sorry for her. She seems like she was a reasonable producer and drew no bid, so click! and she's mine. Assuming that she seems like she's still in condition to breed (I still haven't seen her yet; she's trapped in LA by a snowstorm on the Grapevine!), I was thinking about breeding her this year. I notice her best foal came from a Relaunch cross, so perhaps Cee's Tizzy or Tizbud. Are there any known good crosses for Damascus mares? Does anyone have any ideas of a match for her for any stallion in California (assuming any stud fee)?
Damascus mare nicks?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
Damascus mare nicks?
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
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Bill from WA
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Out of Place and Mesabi Maiden are by Cox's Ridge. For some reason I thought there were a couple of CR sires out west, but only see the one now. High Brite is Best Turn so maybe that is an option.
Turkoman also produced a graded winner Missymooiloveyou. I thought he was in CA but maybe he is retired or deceased.
Turkoman also produced a graded winner Missymooiloveyou. I thought he was in CA but maybe he is retired or deceased.
Thanks, Bill & zinn! I did check out Stormy Jack last night in my California Stallion book, and he's on my short list. Michael's Flyer is interesting. I remember my horse racing mentor telling me 30 years ago that if anyone ever offered me a Fleet Nasrullah broodmare, I should take it no matter what. so the 4x4 angle is interesting to me.
Michael's Flyer had a slow start with his first crop. I think he had 21 foals to the racetrack before he had a winner, and I pretty much built up an opinion that I would never breed to him. Then OK Mikie came along, and I thought, "Well, every stallion gets one big horse." But he has slowly ground out some useful horses, and now has 55% winners, and an AEI of 1.09, improving his mares slightly. He doesn't seem a bad value for Northern California. And I have used Ellen Jackson's farm before, and always been happy.
In the past, I have pretty much had an opinion that beyond nicks, I wanted to breed to a stallion that was a Grade 1 winner (because there are plenty of them around) and has an AEI greater than his CI. But I have not been a successful breeder. Every horse I have bred, I have lost money on, while every yearling I have purchased, I have made a profit on when they got to the racetrack. I guess I don't really blame my choices too much. It's kind of a no-brainer that you can buy a yearling and see what you are going to get CHEAPER than you can breed a mare, support her for a year, raise a foal, and then you have to take what you get, crooked legged or not. God bless breeders! They keep me in this business.
Michael's Flyer had a slow start with his first crop. I think he had 21 foals to the racetrack before he had a winner, and I pretty much built up an opinion that I would never breed to him. Then OK Mikie came along, and I thought, "Well, every stallion gets one big horse." But he has slowly ground out some useful horses, and now has 55% winners, and an AEI of 1.09, improving his mares slightly. He doesn't seem a bad value for Northern California. And I have used Ellen Jackson's farm before, and always been happy.
In the past, I have pretty much had an opinion that beyond nicks, I wanted to breed to a stallion that was a Grade 1 winner (because there are plenty of them around) and has an AEI greater than his CI. But I have not been a successful breeder. Every horse I have bred, I have lost money on, while every yearling I have purchased, I have made a profit on when they got to the racetrack. I guess I don't really blame my choices too much. It's kind of a no-brainer that you can buy a yearling and see what you are going to get CHEAPER than you can breed a mare, support her for a year, raise a foal, and then you have to take what you get, crooked legged or not. God bless breeders! They keep me in this business.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
habitat wrote:Out of Place and Mesabi Maiden are by Cox's Ridge. For some reason I thought there were a couple of CR sires out west, but only see the one now. High Brite is Best Turn so maybe that is an option.
Turkoman also produced a graded winner Missymooiloveyou. I thought he was in CA but maybe he is retired or deceased.
Is Cox's Ridge a good cross with Damascus mares?
I'm not that keen on High Brite. He seems like the embodiment of the Importer Sires Syndrome that Don Engel talked about.
On the other hand, I love Turkoman! He probably meets the same ISS criteria as High Brite, but I can't help it, I love him. I would PRAY for a filly, would love to have a Turkoman broodmare. He's still in the 2008 sire book, so I guess he's still breeding.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
majxmom
I did a little research here and I would suggest Roar as a mate for this mare if they have a good physical match. Damality, a daughter of Damascus out of an In Reality mare did well with Forty Niner and Mr. Prospector line sires. In addition, Coronados Quest, by Forty Niner is out of a Damascus mare with a very good female family. Roar's dam produced Eastern Echo by Damascus.
I think it is a very good match on paper.
DDT
I did a little research here and I would suggest Roar as a mate for this mare if they have a good physical match. Damality, a daughter of Damascus out of an In Reality mare did well with Forty Niner and Mr. Prospector line sires. In addition, Coronados Quest, by Forty Niner is out of a Damascus mare with a very good female family. Roar's dam produced Eastern Echo by Damascus.
I think it is a very good match on paper.
DDT
That's a good one, DDT. I hadn't considered Roar before. I ran him through several nick programs, and they all liked the match. I wish he wasn't payable October 1st. I just have a hard time with that culturally; I'm just too used to "payable when the foal stands and nurses." But his price at $7500 seems reasonable considering his record. There are so many stallions in California this year at $5000 that are just not worth $2000. When you consider what you can get in KY for $5000, some of the stallions that are standing for $5000 in California this year are a joke, including a few prominent ones with conspicuous failed records.
Last edited by majxmom on Sat Jan 26, 2008 12:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
Jessi P wrote:No suggestions for you, just wanted to say that I love your new gal's female family.
Wow, I've been doing a little googling, and I've found out some fun stuff about the old gal. Her second dam, Convenience, was actually pretty famous. You probably already knew that, Jesse. She won a 1972 $250,000 winner-take-all match race against the champion Typecast. Here's the link:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4F8pDHCErw
There was also a thread discussing Convenience in the old dtmc.com forum.
Good Picker herself sold for $26,000 in the Oct 2003 Ocala sale, in foal to Behrens (before any foals had hit the track). She was bred by Glen Hill Farm, which is owned by the inventor of Alberto V05. In his autobiography (yes, there's a book, so I bought it on Amazon), he says that the greatest thrill of his racing life was Convenience's match race. This from a guy who ran horses in the Ky Derby and won the Breeders Cup with One Dreamer.
I'm not sure I'll go ahead and breed this mare-- only if she is in great condition with no cysts, etc. -- but I sure would like a filly from this mare! I really appreciate all of the good ideas. I will have to give it every consideration...
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
majxmom
So you bought the mare only because nobody else bid on her, no knowledge of her pedigree, I would say that is dumb luck, or I could say being at the right place at the right time. I think if Good Picker is healthy you should breed her this year, she is not getting any younger and I would only add that with her pedigree she could produce a very nice horse for you. Good luck with whatever you do.
DDT
So you bought the mare only because nobody else bid on her, no knowledge of her pedigree, I would say that is dumb luck, or I could say being at the right place at the right time. I think if Good Picker is healthy you should breed her this year, she is not getting any younger and I would only add that with her pedigree she could produce a very nice horse for you. Good luck with whatever you do.
DDT
DDT wrote:
So you bought the mare only because nobody else bid on her, no knowledge of her pedigree, I would say that is dumb luck, or I could say being at the right place at the right time.
I wasn't at Barretts. I was bidding on the Internet, but I had the catalog. The catalog page only detailed the first dam, Conveniently, who was nice enough in her own right, especially as a producer. The rest of the page was taken up with Good Picker's own produce & race record. I could see the name Convenient in the pedigree at the top of the page, but it didn't jog anything in my memory (I was 13 when she ran her match race, and Secretariat was the only horse for me then). She was one of three mares that I was planning on bidding on, just BECAUSE they were pre-1990 models, and I hate to see those kind go out with no bid. The next auction she attends is likely to be the Cowtown Auction in Turlock or something. The primary reason for buying her wasn't to breed her, just to bring her home, but if her uterus looks good and it doesn't seem like a cruel exploitation, I would love to have a filly out of her. I have a 100% success rate of getting a live foal so far (knock wood!), so it's worth considering. We'll see what the vet says. She was not mated this year, so I wonder if she had a difficult delivery this year.
One of the other mares I bid on was Cotton Bloomers. She was the primary horse I was interested in, because I attended her when she was born, I think. We used to foal out most of Perry Cotton's mares, including Bloomer Miss. Cotton Bloomers did not have a live foal for the last four years, and I was sure I would be the only bidder. I was shocked that there were three of us bidding, so I was able to drop out quickly. If she sold for $2000, she wasn't at risk for a horse dealer this week.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
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GreenThumb
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Sorry to be jumping into this late, but I was also at the Barretts sale, and am just returning. Saw your mare, she caught my eye because I was actually at the match race between Convenience and Typecast. She did not have the look of a 20 year old, there was a younger look about her and I was glad someone bid on her. There were a couple of oldies offered for sale that really had an "old" look about them, and I felt sorry for them.
As a broodmare sire, Damascus has been very successful with Mr. Prospector line stallions, Danzig line stallions, and Storm Cat stallions (I'm limiting the discussion to those sire lines that you can get in California). Roar offers a lot, but he has fertility issues, the farm where he stands is very open about it, but with your mare being older I'd be careful there. Formal Gold has nice stats and is standing at the same farm as Roar, and is a Mr. Prospector line. Sea of Secrets gives you both Storm Cat and Mr. Prospector, Game Plan gives you Danzig and Alydar (who also matches with Damascus), Decarchy's 2 year olds hit the ground running this year and is a Mr. Prospector line.
If you are interested in Stormy Jack he is quite the looker in person and has a great attitude about him. His book has ballooned since he has arrived at his new farm, and since Bob Black Jack's incredible win his book is really exploding.
Good luck to you. The oldies are challenging, but you could end up with a real gem.
As a broodmare sire, Damascus has been very successful with Mr. Prospector line stallions, Danzig line stallions, and Storm Cat stallions (I'm limiting the discussion to those sire lines that you can get in California). Roar offers a lot, but he has fertility issues, the farm where he stands is very open about it, but with your mare being older I'd be careful there. Formal Gold has nice stats and is standing at the same farm as Roar, and is a Mr. Prospector line. Sea of Secrets gives you both Storm Cat and Mr. Prospector, Game Plan gives you Danzig and Alydar (who also matches with Damascus), Decarchy's 2 year olds hit the ground running this year and is a Mr. Prospector line.
If you are interested in Stormy Jack he is quite the looker in person and has a great attitude about him. His book has ballooned since he has arrived at his new farm, and since Bob Black Jack's incredible win his book is really exploding.
Good luck to you. The oldies are challenging, but you could end up with a real gem.