Talkin' Horses: Dr. Larry Bramlage, DVM

Whirlaway · Postby **Whirlaway** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 6:41 pm

Dr. Bramlage is a familiar face to racing fans. His 14 years as a member of hte American Association of Equine Practitioner's (AEEP) "On-Call" program for television viewers of the Triple Crown and the Breeders' Cup World Championships has brought him into millions of homes. On-Call, which provides expert veterinary commentary during major, televised races, was the brainchild of a group of elite members of the AAEP that included Bramlage.

An Excerpt:

"But, the thoroughbred maintains only the minimum skeleton that is sufficient to carry them around the track. Excess skeleton is added weight and penalized the horse's speed. So, the light skeleton is a speed advantage, unless it gets too light to carry its owner, and then it fails. This is why we will never eliminate injuries totally. Success is predicated on the fact that our athletes carry the minimum skeleton necessary. They run right on the edge of their physiology. But, we have the obligation to mitigate anything in our power that may make it safer for them. Artificial surfaces may do that, but they have to stand the test of time."

Now we know why ...

He was so popular that the questions and answers covered two days. The links:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/TalkinHorses/LB121307.asp

http://www.bloodhorse.com/TalkinHorses/LB122007.asp

habitat · Postby **habitat** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:13 pm

so why dont we see humans breaking down during a 100 or 200 meter run? I always wondered why I couldnt sprint; I have heavier bones.

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:19 pm

most of them do, but it's their muscles tearing and other stuff. Some of the stuff I've heard that track athletes do is pretty gross.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:34 pm

QH inherited a blocky conformation skeleton frame, that is faster over sprint distances than their Tb contemperaries.

habitat · Postby **habitat** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:51 pm

I'll buy into some of it, but a horse's bone density is effected by the conditioning the horse is under. A horse's bone density is not a constant.
It changes as a result of conditioning and activity.

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:03 pm

Horses need to build density, the only way to build density is to run around and be a horse. Horses who are babied when they are young will have to be babied when they get older. That's my take on it. All of our horses are out as much as possible, even our stallions (not that they will build any density now). IMO it is better for them mentally and physically to be out of their stall as much as possible.

Strategic Maneuver · Postby **Strategic Maneuver** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:58 pm

Prenatal care and the luck of genetics. After that, you can make it a little worse or little better.

louis finochio · Postby **louis finochio** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 7:27 am

All those fashion breds that are unraced & cant stand training or only have 2 starts before they become injured or breakdown, must have a low bone density vs non-fashion breds that have 25 or more starts.

Sue Stover at Cal Davis is currently researching bone density to see what part it plays in the soundness of Tb.

ratherrapid · Postby **ratherrapid** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 8:50 am

Louis that is truly a revelation. about time, I'm thinking. they're also doing a comprehensive study in Ontario just recently started! suddenly it seems the sport is making some progress.

Barbaro06 · Postby **Barbaro06** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:23 am

I remember reading a long time ago about a breeder in Kentucky (I think) who let their babies run out in the fields. Now the fields had hills and dips and would give the horses good workouts, toughened their legs up. If my memory serves me right, the guy running said it didn't bother him that his yearlings got dings and scratches...he wanted them to have physical toughness. I wonder if he is still in the business today....

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 11:28 am

Huh. Well that is what we do. Also with our pregnant mares and some are older gals have such great abdominal tone they've carried foals to term for us when they failed to do so elsewhere as barn marshmallows.

LB · Postby LB » Sat Feb 23, 2008 12:36 pm

Barbaro06 wrote:I remember reading a long time ago about a breeder in Kentucky (I think) who let their babies run out in the fields. Now the fields had hills and dips and would give the horses good workouts, toughened their legs up. If my memory serves me right, the guy running said it didn't bother him that his yearlings got dings and scratches...he wanted them to have physical toughness. I wonder if he is still in the business today....

What you're describing isn't an oddity in Kentucky, it's standard procedure for most breeding farms. Central KY is known for its rolling hills and that's one of the reasons why it's considered to be an ideal place to raise young horses.

Whirlaway · Postby **Whirlaway** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 1:13 pm

I believe what the good Dr. is trying to help us understand in as the breed evolves towards more and more speed, this evolution is creating "the minimum skeleton necessary", the lighter the skeleton the faster the horse. All is fine and good until the horse has to carry the impost. Too much weight and the skeletal system fails. Data suggests system failure caused by centripetal forces or hard/inconsistent racetrack surfaces. Now, allowing the horse to run free in the field to "just be a horse", will that change the genetics? If so, please explain how.

Remember Barbaro ... I've always believed that he had so much power and thrust that his bones shattered from the stress. Having read the work of the good Dr., I'm certain we'll see it again.

Easy Goer · Postby **Easy Goer** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 4:14 pm

Got a bad taste in my mouth vis a vis Bramalage after the Breeders cup when he stated unequivocally (or words to that effect) that the track conditions did not kill Geo. Washington.

How the hell does he know? Furthermore, most observers noted that the horse was going bad for most of the way, it is not beyond the realm of possibility that the rider continued on w/ a horse going wrong with the impression that it was the surface NOT an injury.

Not faulting anyone, but the possibility that the muddy track contributed to that unfortunate situation cannot be dismissed cavalierly. My impression was that the Doc was playing to the TV audience. Did not sit well with me

Hope that is not too off topic..

wilf · Postby **wilf** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 6:36 pm

Bramlage is a vet he is not a trainer, I have never heard such frogs##t. You don't need a Phd to understand this game or at least figure out that most breakdowns have the same computations. We have one scenario whereby the "hothouse" babies are raised with the sales in mind to look like the finished article to the buyer, the first time they are put under pressure they fold their tent as they do not have the constitution to sustain them which could have been moulded via a natural upbringing in the green paddocks of Kentucky, Ocala, Ireland, Argentina,Australia or the hillsides of New Zealand. The other side of the tragedy is in the hands of the trainers with a slew of legal drugs at their disposal and nobody to stand up for a horse that has had enough for now. Behind every breakdown there is a story to be told and if a horse has a light skeleton then it is the doing of breeders who go the commercial route of brittle high profile bloodlines instead of seeking toughness and God help it from day one.