Broodmares ...

[jrgators]

I think it's kinda like the market, you have to diversify.

You have 30% of each kind.

I've those with good race record, not much pedigree.
Pedigree is good, race record is so so.
Good pedigree and good race record.

[Simengineer]

It would be interesting to know the lifetime average win/start on the mares to see if that has any correlation. But that would be a lot of work to research.

While I'm not sure if this is what you were asking for, the race records of the mares in the study was included. But the format of the post was pretty poor and difficult to read.

I can summarize some of it.

Keep in mind that when I reference "the mares" I mean the 100 dams of the most recent graded stakes winners (minus a couple of weeks now).

84 of the mares have race records. There is an margin of error here as a few mares are listed as having unknow records, but are known to have raced.

Here are those 84 mares and their race records:

Name record %win %ITM
Proudeyes (Ger) 2-0-0-0 0.0% 0.0%
Reefside 5-0-0-0 0.0% 0.0%
Secret Psalm 2-0-0-0 0.0% 0.0%
Winter's Gone 6-0-0-0 0.0% 0.0%
Ahdaab 4-0-0-1 0.0% 25.0%
Shocking Sport 3-0-1-0 0.0% 33.3%
Silence Beauty (JPN) 3-0-0-1 0.0% 33.3%
Estala (Gb) 8-0-1-2 0.0% 37.5%
Trickski 21-1-0-5 4.8% 28.6%
Jimkana (Fr) 41-2-3-6 4.9% 26.8%
Penpont (NZ) 15-1-1-1 6.7% 20.0%
Kit's Girl 14-1-5-3 7.1% 64.3%
Never is a Promise 23-2-3-2 8.7% 30.4%
Amarice (Gb) 9-1-2-2 11.1% 55.6%
Rhiana 27-3-7-5 11.1% 55.6%
Sweet Mama 26-3-0-5 11.5% 30.8%
High in the Park 26-3-5-4 11.5% 46.2%
Moments of Joy 17-2-9-1 11.8% 70.6%
Pacific Spell 16-2-2-0 12.5% 25.0%
Jhenais Jewel 61-8-11-14 13.1% 54.1%
Lake Windermere 7-1-0-0 14.3% 14.3%
Goldie Pops 14-2-2-2 14.3% 42.9%
Misk 14-2-2-2 14.3% 42.9%
Silken Sash (IRE) 7-1-2-1 14.3% 57.1%
Tasso's Magic Roo 34-5-9-2 14.7% 47.1%
Sweet Damsel 33-5-5-4 15.2% 42.4%
Toot Sweet 13-2-2-2 15.4% 46.2%
Agathe 13-2-4-4 15.4% 76.9%
Gold Canyon 6-1-0-2 16.7% 50.0%
Sluice 23-4-6-2 17.4% 52.2%
Leslie's Lady 28-5-3-2 17.9% 35.7%
Air France 11-2-0-3 18.2% 45.5%
Ruthian 21-4-5-6 19.0% 71.4%
Romantic Fibs 5-1-1-0 20.0% 40.0%
Waterside 20-4-2-2 20.0% 40.0%
River Dance 10-2-1-2 20.0% 50.0%
Torchera 15-3-4-2 20.0% 60.0%
Just A Ginny 15-3-3-4 20.0% 66.7%
Affordable Price 15-3-5-5 20.0% 86.7%
Sand Pirate 34-7-5-2 20.6% 41.2%
Santaria 14-3-6-0 21.4% 64.3%
Emphatic Style 64-14-13-12 21.9% 60.9%
Last Resort (Gb) 9-2-0-4 22.2% 66.7%
Comet Cat 13-3-3-0 23.1% 46.2%
Nappelon 70-17-5-19 24.3% 58.6%
Devils Lake 32-8-2-6 25.0% 50.0%
Better Than Honour 8-2-4-2 25.0% 100.0%
Coral Sea 15-4-2-2 26.7% 53.3%
Victorian Angel 15-4-3-2 26.7% 60.0%
Apogee 11-3-2-0 27.3% 45.5%
Zoftig 11-3-2-1 27.3% 54.5%
Vertigineux 7-2-0-0 28.6% 28.6%
Saffron Crocus (GB) 7-2-1-0 28.6% 42.9%
Ippodamia 21-6-3-2 28.6% 52.4%
Away 24-7-4-6 29.2% 70.8%
Circle of Life 10-3-1-2 30.0% 60.0%
Rings A Chime 13-4-5-2 30.8% 84.6%
Klondike Kaytie 63-20-6-6 31.7% 50.8%
Changing Ways 6-2-1-0 33.3% 50.0%
Dancinginmydreams 3-1-1-0 33.3% 66.7%
Dubai Belle 3-1-1-0 33.3% 66.7%
Shameful 12-4-3-2 33.3% 75.0%
Flirtatious 12-4-5-1 33.3% 83.3%
Major Wager 11-4-5-1 36.4% 90.9%
Class Kris 27-10-8-2 37.0% 74.1%
Well Dressed 8-3-0-3 37.5% 75.0%
Lethal Leta 32-12-7-6 37.5% 78.1%
Fiesta Baby 5-2-0-0 40.0% 40.0%
Hamba 5-2-2-0 40.0% 80.0%
Trust Greta 12-5-0-0 41.7% 41.7%
Shesasurething 7-3-1-0 42.9% 57.1%
Irish Cherry 14-6-3-0 42.9% 64.3%
Apasionata Sonata 9-4-2-0 44.4% 66.7%
Kostroma (IRE) 26-12-2-3 46.2% 65.4%
Astrapi 8-4-0-0 50.0% 50.0%
Dance Dress 6-3-0-0 50.0% 50.0%
Kitten's First 2-1-0-0- 50.0% 50.0%
Mien 2-1-0-0 50.0% 50.0%
Primarily 4-2-1-0 50.0% 75.0%
Goulash 12-6-2-2 50.0% 83.3%
Paved In Gold 13-7-2-1 53.8% 76.9%
Nashoba (IRE) 5-4-1-0 80.0% 100.0%
Relaxing Rhythm 9-8-0-0 88.9% 88.9%
Wild Vision 1-1-0-0 100.0% 100.0%

I don't know if it means anything but these 84 mares ran in 1298 races, won 305 and placed in another 408, for a 23.5% win, and ITM 54.9%.

[KamiBrooks]

I REALLY appreciate all the effort you went to to produce that, but what I was refering to was the lifetime avg earnings/start.

As an example a horse with:

39 Starts, 9 Wins, 7 Places, 5 Shows Career Earnings: $127,375

would have lifetime average earnings/start of $3266/start.

I was saying that I look for 30+ starts w/average $3k/start as part of my 'sorting' process, so even if a mare is running in a $5k claimer and has no black type, if she had a high average, I'd look closer at her because at one time she was competitive.

Conversely a mare that has earned over $100k, but took 80 starts to earn it, I wouldn't tend to look at (even though she's probably a well built/sound mare). I'd also likely take a pass on any black type mare with only a few starts and minor black type placings because I think that they're generally over priced for what they've done (I'm breed to race).

[Simengineer]

The graded stakes winners are going to the best stallions.

This of course brings up the other half of the equation. I captured this data too. Here are the 100 dams of recent graded stakes winners, how they did at racing, the stallion they were sent to, and the rank of the stallion on the North American General Sire List. I need some help with the European stallions.

I sorted this list by quality of racing the mare did.

Agathe ----- 1-gsw ----- Danehill -----
Better Than Honour ----- 1-gsw ----- Mineshaft -----
Changing Ways ----- 1-gsw ----- High Yield -----
Circle of Life ----- 1-gsw ----- Thunder Gulch ----- 58
Class Kris ----- 1-gsw ----- Kingmambo ----- 2
Gay Charm ----- 1-gsw ----- Spend a Buck -----
Kostroma (IRE) ----- 1-gsw ----- Doneraile Court ----- 24
Last Resort (Gb) ----- 1-gsw ----- Mozart (Ire) -----
Nappelon ----- 1-gsw ----- Awesome Again ----- 18
Paved In Gold ----- 1-gsw ----- Hennessy ----- 33
Relaxing Rhythm ----- 1-gsw ----- Silver Charm -----
Rings A Chime ----- 1-gsw ----- Empire Maker -----
Spring Star (brz) ----- 1-gsw ----- Chester House ----- 14
Zoftig ----- 1-gsw ----- Gone West ----- 34
Affordable Price ----- 2-sw ----- E Dubai ----- 75
Apasionata Sonata ----- 2-sw ----- Pulpit ----- 16
Astrapi ----- 2-sw ----- Touch Gold ----- 26
Away ----- 2-sw ----- Unbridled's Song ----- 22
Comet Cat ----- 2-sw ----- Lucky Lionel ----- 51
Dance Dress ----- 2-sw ----- Danehill -----
Devils Lake ----- 2-sw ----- Gilded Time ----- 39
Goulash ----- 2-sw ----- Saint Ballado -----
Ippodamia ----- 2-sw ----- Tribal Rule -----
Irish Cherry ----- 2-sw ----- Awesome Again ----- 18
Jhenais Jewel ----- 2-sw ----- Successful Appeal ----- 81
Klondike Kaytie ----- 2-sw ----- Kipling -----
Leslie's Lady ----- 2-sw ----- Harlan's Holiday ----- 65
Lethal Leta ----- 2-sw ----- Unusual Heat ----- 20
Primarily ----- 2-sw ----- Lemon Drop Kid ----- 31
River Dance ----- 2-sw ----- Rainbow Quest -----
Ruthian ----- 2-sw ----- Pulpit ----- 16
Santaria ----- 2-sw ----- Point Given ----- 32
Shameful ----- 2-sw ----- Indian Charlie ----- 21
Sluice ----- 2-sw ----- Empire Maker -----
Sweet Mama ----- 2-sw ----- Officer ----- 70
Tasso's Magic Roo ----- 2-sw ----- Orientate ----- 38
Victorian Angel ----- 2-sw ----- Johannesburg ----- 25
Well Dressed ----- 2-sw ----- Tiznow ----- 4
Apogee ----- 3-sp ----- Jump Start ----- 55
Dancinginmydreams ----- 3-sp ----- Rahy ----- 19
Dubai Belle ----- 3-sp ----- A.P. Indy ----- 11
Estala (Gb) ----- 3-sp ----- Chester House ----- 14
Major Wager ----- 3-sp ----- Silver Deputy ----- 23
Moments of Joy ----- 3-sp ----- Vicar -----
Rhiana ----- 3-sp ----- Forest Wildcat ----- 12
Toot Sweet ----- 3-sp ----- Bertrando ----- 80
Torchera ----- 3-sp ----- Tiznow ----- 4
Trickski ----- 3-sp ----- Proudest Romeo -----
Waterside ----- 3-sp ----- Accelerator -----
Air France ----- 4-winner ----- Smooth Jazz -----
Amarice (Gb) ----- 4-winner ----- Inchinor (GB) -----
Coral Sea ----- 4-winner ----- Mineshaft -----
Emphatic Style ----- 4-winner ----- Pure Prize ----- 93
Fiesta Baby ----- 4-winner ----- Put It Back ----- 97
Flirtatious ----- 4-winner ----- Maria's Mon ----- 29
Gold Canyon ----- 4-winner ----- A.P. Indy ----- 11
Goldie Pops ----- 4-winner ----- Bianconi -----
Hamba ----- 4-winner ----- Maria's Mon ----- 29
High in the Park ----- 4-winner ----- Chester House ----- 14
Jimkana (Fr) ----- 4-winner ----- Muhtathir (GB) -----
Just A Ginny ----- 4-winner ----- Hook and Ladder -----
Kit's Girl ----- 4-winner ----- Johannesburg ----- 25
Kitten's First ----- 4-winner ----- Catienus ----- 63
Lake Windermere ----- 4-winner ----- Lake George -----
Mien ----- 4-winner ----- Boundary ----- 8
Misk ----- 4-winner ----- Victory Gallop -----
Nashoba (IRE) ----- 4-winner ----- Silver Hawk -----
Never is a Promise ----- 4-winner ----- Crafty Friend -----
Pacific Spell ----- 4-winner ----- Proud Citizen ----- 84
Penpont (NZ) ----- 4-winner ----- Unusual Heat ----- 20
Romantic Fibs ----- 4-winner ----- In Excess (Ire) ----- 82
Saffron Crocus (GB) ----- 4-winner ----- Croco Rouge (Ire) -----
Sand Pirate ----- 4-winner ----- Stephen Got Even ----- 67
Shesasurething ----- 4-winner ----- City Zip ----- 52
Silken Sash (IRE) ----- 4-winner ----- Malibu Moon ----- 59
Sweet Damsel ----- 4-winner ----- Tiznow ----- 4
Trust Greta ----- 4-winner ----- Sir Cat -----
Vertigineux ----- 4-winner ----- Street Cry (Ire) ----- 57
Wild Vision ----- 4-winner ----- Pulpit ----- 16
Ahdaab ----- 5-placed ----- Danehill Dancer (Ire) -----
High Spot (GB) ----- 5-placed ----- Orpen -----
Shocking Sport ----- 5-placed ----- Stormy Atlantic ----- 10
Silence Beauty (JPN) ----- 5-placed ----- Tale Of The Cat ----- 6
Triple Tricks (IRE) ----- 5-placed ----- Foxhound -----
Proudeyes (Ger) ----- 6-maiden ----- Silvano (Ger) -----
Reefside ----- 6-maiden ----- Thunderello -----
Secret Psalm ----- 6-maiden ----- Siphon (Brz) ----- 79
Winter's Gone ----- 6-maiden ----- Silver Deputy ----- 23
Galleon of Gold ----- 7-unraced ----- Menifee -----
Julie's Angel ----- 7-unraced ----- Afternoon Deelites -----
Kyka ----- 7-unraced ----- Indian Ridge (Ire) -----
Outsource ----- 7-unraced ----- Distorted Humor ----- 7
Princesa's Passion ----- 7-unraced ----- Royal Anthem -----
Route Sixty Six (BRZ) ----- 7-unraced ----- Wild Event -----
Rusty Back ----- 7-unraced ----- Giant's Causeway ----- 5
Shesabullwinkle ----- 7-unraced ----- Eltish -----
Weekend Storm ----- 7-unraced ----- Gulch ----- 88
Willa Dear ----- 7-unraced ----- Precise End -----
Diamond Fitz (ARG) ----- 8-unknown ----- Honour and Glory ----- 15
Crowning Touch ----- unraced ----- Repent -----
I'd have to say that it certainly does look the case. Of course, one would expect that. No since in sending your proven runner to a proven dud at stud. Unproven stud is an entirely different matter.

[Simengineer]

I REALLY appreciate all the effort you went to to produce that, but what I was refering to was the lifetime avg earnings/start.

As an example a horse with:

39 Starts, 9 Wins, 7 Places, 5 Shows Career Earnings: $127,375

would have lifetime average earnings/start of $3266/start.

Ah, I understand now. Sometimes I can be pretty slow on the switch.

Of the dams that had a race record, here are the earnings/start:

dam ---- record ---- money earned ---- $/start
Proudeyes (Ger) ---- 2-0-0-0 ---- 0 ---- $0.00
Reefside ---- 5-0-0-0 ---- 210 ---- $42.00
Secret Psalm ---- 2-0-0-0 ---- 340 ---- $170.00
Silence Beauty (JPN) ---- 3-0-0-1 ---- 703 ---- $234.33
Ahdaab ---- 4-0-0-1 ---- 1,115 ---- $278.75
Winter's Gone ---- 6-0-0-0 ---- 2,610 ---- $435.00
Pacific Spell ---- 16-2-2-0 ---- 20,771 ---- $1,298.19
Jimkana (Fr) ---- 41-2-3-6 ---- 54,584 ---- $1,331.32
Saffron Crocus (GB) ---- 7-2-1-0 ---- 9,328 ---- $1,332.57
Amarice (Gb) ---- 9-1-2-2 ---- 12,067 ---- $1,340.78
Silken Sash (IRE) ---- 7-1-2-1 ---- 11,885 ---- $1,697.86
Trickski ---- 21-1-0-5 ---- 37,170 ---- $1,770.00
Sweet Damsel ---- 33-5-5-4 ---- 66,469 ---- $2,014.21
Lake Windermere ---- 7-1-0-0 ---- 14,520 ---- $2,074.29
Penpont (NZ) ---- 15-1-1-1 ---- 31,134 ---- $2,075.60
Never is a Promise ---- 23-2-3-2 ---- 48,718 ---- $2,118.17
Shocking Sport ---- 3-0-1-0 ---- 6,510 ---- $2,170.00
Sand Pirate ---- 34-7-5-2 ---- 76,996 ---- $2,264.59
Estala (Gb) ---- 8-0-1-2 ---- 18,375 ---- $2,296.88
High in the Park ---- 26-3-5-4 ---- 63,867 ---- $2,456.42
Goldie Pops ---- 14-2-2-2 ---- 35,105 ---- $2,507.50
Kit's Girl ---- 14-1-5-3 ---- 38,250 ---- $2,732.14
Klondike Kaytie ---- 63-20-6-6 ---- 173,802 ---- $2,758.76
Trust Greta ---- 12-5-0-0 ---- 34,096 ---- $2,841.33
Emphatic Style ---- 64-14-13-12 ---- 196,764 ---- $3,074.44
Devils Lake ---- 32-8-2-6 ---- 103,785 ---- $3,243.28
Air France ---- 11-2-0-3 ---- 37,559 ---- $3,414.45
Jhenais Jewel ---- 61-8-11-14 ---- 220,673 ---- $3,617.59
Ippodamia ---- 21-6-3-2 ---- 79,593 ---- $3,790.14
Moments of Joy ---- 17-2-9-1 ---- 74,685 ---- $4,393.24
Sweet Mama ---- 26-3-0-5 ---- 117,075 ---- $4,502.88
Gold Canyon ---- 6-1-0-2 ---- 27,740 ---- $4,623.33
Misk ---- 14-2-2-2 ---- 66,905 ---- $4,778.93
Waterside ---- 20-4-2-2 ---- 106,400 ---- $5,320.00
Apogee ---- 11-3-2-0 ---- 60,520 ---- $5,501.82
Tasso's Magic Roo ---- 34-5-9-2 ---- 196,493 ---- $5,779.21
Just A Ginny ---- 15-3-3-4 ---- 98,725 ---- $6,581.67
Leslie's Lady ---- 28-5-3-2 ---- 187,014 ---- $6,679.07
Mien ---- 2-1-0-0 ---- 14,250 ---- $7,125.00
Kitten's First ---- 2-1-0-0 ---- 14,412 ---- $7,206.00
Toot Sweet ---- 13-2-2-2 ---- 95,200 ---- $7,323.08
Romantic Fibs ---- 5-1-1-0 ---- 38,400 ---- $7,680.00
River Dancer ---- 10-2-1-2 ---- 77,770 ---- $7,777.00
Shesasurething ---- 7-3-1-0 ---- 56,770 ---- $8,110.00
Torchera ---- 15-3-4-2 ---- 122,150 ---- $8,143.33
Fiesta Baby ---- 5-2-0-0 ---- 42,280 ---- $8,456.00
Coral Sea ---- 15-4-2-2 ---- 129,009 ---- $8,600.60
Vertigineux ---- 7-2-0-0 ---- 60,480 ---- $8,640.00
Sluice ---- 23-4-6-2 ---- 202,453 ---- $8,802.30
Paved In Gold ---- 13-7-2-1 ---- 114,498 ---- $8,807.54
Nappelon ---- 70-17-5-19 ---- 630,777 ---- $9,011.10
Lethal Leta ---- 32-12-7-6 ---- 300,600 ---- $9,393.75
Hamba ---- 5-2-2-0 ---- 47,500 ---- $9,500.00
Ruthian ---- 21-4-5-6 ---- 212,592 ---- $10,123.43
Rhiana ---- 27-3-7-5 ---- 281,422 ---- $10,423.04
Irish Cherry ---- 14-6-3-0 ---- 147,280 ---- $10,520.00
Victorian Angel ---- 15-4-3-2 ---- 159,199 ---- $10,613.27
Away ---- 24-7-4-6 ---- 277,550 ---- $11,564.58
Dance Dress ---- 6-3-0-0 ---- 71,373 ---- $11,895.50
Dubai Belle ---- 3-1-1-0 ---- 36,200 ---- $12,066.67
Affordable Price ---- 15-3-5-5 ---- 181,450 ---- $12,096.67
Well Dressed ---- 8-3-0-3 ---- 103,961 ---- $12,995.13
Last Resort (Gb) ---- 9-2-0-4 ---- 118,470 ---- $13,163.33
Goulash ---- 12-6-2-2 ---- 162,975 ---- $13,581.25
Flirtatious ---- 12-4-5-1 ---- 171,266 ---- $14,272.17
Primarily ---- 4-2-1-0 ---- 63,036 ---- $15,759.00
Major Wager ---- 11-4-5-1 ---- 189,616 ---- $17,237.82
Apasionata Sonata ---- 9-4-2-0 ---- 155,535 ---- $17,281.67
Changing Ways ---- 6-2-1-0 ---- 104,247 ---- $17,374.50
Wild Vision ---- 1-1-0-0 ---- 17,400 ---- $17,400.00
Agathe ---- 13-2-4-4 ---- 247,740 ---- $19,056.92
Santaria ---- 14-3-6-0 ---- 266,937 ---- $19,066.93
Astrapi ---- 8-4-0-0 ---- 155,709 ---- $19,463.63
Shameful ---- 12-4-3-2 ---- 241,345 ---- $20,112.08
Dancinginmydreams ---- 3-1-1-0 ---- 64,600 ---- $21,533.33
Class Kris ---- 27-10-8-2 ---- 582,129 ---- $21,560.33
Nashoba (IRE) ---- 5-4-1-0 ---- 119,400 ---- $23,880.00
Circle of Life ---- 10-3-1-2 ---- 268,925 ---- $26,892.50
Better Than Honour ---- 8-2-4-2 ---- 250,920 ---- $31,365.00
Zoftig ---- 11-3-2-1 ---- 401,024 ---- $36,456.73
Relaxing Rhythm ---- 9-8-0-0 ---- 338,294 ---- $37,588.22
Comet Cat ---- 13-3-3-0 ---- 522,657 ---- $40,204.38
Kostroma (IRE) ---- 26-12-2-3 ---- 1,093,275 ---- $42,049.04
Rings A Chime ---- 13-4-5-2 ---- 606,315 ---- $46,639.62

This is getting to be quite a spreadsheet. I'm only posting certain colums at a time. If anyone wants to see other combinations of colums, just post the request, I'll see what I can do.

[zinn21]

Just made a visual count so may not be 100% accurate but it looks like 66 of 84 dams earned $2400 or more per start. In general these mares were good to very good racehorses.

[Pete]

Hi Mood Swings,

Seriously, a mare with a crummy race record could/can just as easily become a great producer as a mare with a fantastic race record.

I must strongly disagree. I believe that in both sire and dam the race record is the best indicator of potential in the shed abut it's not a certainty.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Folks,

Following Kami's lead this is a simple (at least to me) calculation that I do to get an idea of the average class of a racemare.

Earnings divided by: Wins * .6 + Placings (2nd and 3rd) * .2

So a mare that had a record of 16 - 2 - 1 - 3 and earned $47,200 would calculate as follows:

2 wins * .6 = 1.2
4 place * .2 = .8

1.2 + .8 = 2

$47,200 / 2 = $23,600. The approximate average purse that this mare was competitive in was $23,600.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Zinn21,

Simengineer wrote,
14% of graded stakes winners have graded stakes winning dams
24% of graded stakes winners have stakes winning dams
11% of graded stakes winners have unraced dams
9% of graded stakes winners have dams that raced but never won

So if 38% of the graded stakes winners came from graded stakes or stake winning dams that means the rest (62%) come from mares that are non winners, winners and unraced-right?

And if the stakes/graded stakes winners are going to the best stallions with the highest stakes siring percentage it seems to me that one has, in general, as good opportunity to breed a stakes or graded stakes winner from those dams and sires who are less documented for class but quite statistically capable.

I agree that stakes caliber mares will have far more opportunity in choice of stallions and potentially in superior care but keep in mind that only 3% of all horses (on average) win stakes.

It would entail looking at the number of foals that these mares had to make a proper comparison but I'd assume that the stakes mares are producing graded winners 5x or more the rate compared to the other mares (and it's understood that they do have better opportunity).

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi MikeC,

I look for mares whose family is coalescing.

A family where there is greater consistency in class and racing ability.

A family that has been bred to lesser sires but that has many runners that are performing well.

For broodmares I look for consistency in breeding - mares in the family that get in foal.

I look for consistency in production - good to better quality runners for the sires that got them.

Hope that helps.

Regards,

Pete

[mikec]

Hiya Pete,
Every little bit helps !

[Linda_d]

Hi MikeC,

For broodmares I look for consistency in breeding - mares in the family that get in foal.

I think that this is sometimes overlooked when it comes to breeding horses -- all breeds not just TBs. Broodmares can't make breeders money if they don't produce foals, but too many breeders waste time and effort with mares that don't produce many live foals despite the opportunity, keep fillies from those same mares for breeding stock, and then wonder why only half their broodmares have foals at side. In the dairy industry, a 90% calf crop is considered a necessity to stay in business.

[Pete]

Hi Linda_d,

Good point.

I break down mare qualities into:

1 - Race record
2 - Conformation
3 - Pedigree
4 - Breeding (how well and easily they get in foal)
5 - Production (how well their foals race)

Not listed in importance but the order in which I evaluate them. Just as pedigree isn't only about the individual so are breeding and production.

Regards,

Pete

[b2w]

Hi everyone..I've been reading this terrific forum for a while now and thought I'd drop in a quick howdee to 'y'all'.

I have an interest in everything relating to the racing broodmare.

On a related subject an upcoming tattersalls July sale has quite a few 'mares in foal' on offer. Out of the 200 odd such mares majority have been to stallions with a fee of $5000-$20000 range. I've shorted listed about 20 which have a good pedigree but even these are mostly unraced, AND with no previous produce due to a young age.

Reading some of the earlier comments in this thread it seems that these mares would be seen as relatively high risk especially in the absence of a race record by most on this forum.

It would be interesting to find out how you guys view this ... where in most cases perhaps the stallion fees are more than the mare itself.

[madelyn]

Feel free to ignore me, this is just my opinion.

A lot of times mares are bred to stallions whose fees are beyond the value of the mare, which would be a form of commercial suicide if the mare was not sold while in foal. Reasons might include:

The mare is owned by the stallion owner, or is on a mare share, and it is perceived as one way to collect a stud fee.

The mare is perceived as a throwaway, got in foal by a season holder or a stallion owner, to get foals out there on the ground -- numbers, numbers, numbers.

The owner of the mare is disappointed in her for some reason, so got her in foal to a stallion that might be perceived as "hot" or "fashionable" to try to unload the mare.

The owner has no concept of the mare's actual commercial value and is unfamiliar with the term "over-breeding."

There are more reasons, they just don't come to mind.