Do you suppose stallion managers are getting nervous? Im thinking the phones are awfully quiet....
http://www.bloodhorse.com/NOW/News/Bree ... 48532.aspx
Nervous?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Just like any other industry, you have to review your prices to get goods sold. I know some places that are offering 40 to 60% off Rolex, Breitling and other luxury brand watches. Those reduced prices may get a few more people to come into the store but people are not purchasing luxury items like they did in the past.
Stud fees are a luxury and a lot of the pricing does not reflect the real economic conditions in the USA or the horse industry right now. It's really bad and its only going to get worse in 2009.
Stud fees are a luxury and a lot of the pricing does not reflect the real economic conditions in the USA or the horse industry right now. It's really bad and its only going to get worse in 2009.
Last edited by HR LLC on Mon Dec 22, 2008 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Im surprised at the attitude of most stallion managers in Florida. Some are offering a little discount, usually with multiple mares booked, but in general I think they are all way off on what the market will bear. Very few mares are booked so far. I think things will change drastically the further along we get into breeding season.
If fewer mares are bred, leading to the obvious smaller foal crop, perhaps there will be incentives for more horses to continue racing beyond their 3 or 4 year old year.
Consider the fan base of Evening Attire. That's the sort of thing that is GOOD for racing.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but I think most of the higher stud fees are ridiculous. The exponential growth of stud fees at the upper end just doesn't exist in other parts of the horse world. I'm fairly familiar with Arabian, warmblood, and even QH stud fees. Seems to me a fairly harsh market correction is coming for most of the $5000+ stud fees.
Consider the fan base of Evening Attire. That's the sort of thing that is GOOD for racing.
Sorry for the slightly off-topic post, but I think most of the higher stud fees are ridiculous. The exponential growth of stud fees at the upper end just doesn't exist in other parts of the horse world. I'm fairly familiar with Arabian, warmblood, and even QH stud fees. Seems to me a fairly harsh market correction is coming for most of the $5000+ stud fees.
Fireslam wrote:Im surprised at the attitude of most stallion managers in Florida. Some are offering a little discount, usually with multiple mares booked, but in general I think they are all way off on what the market will bear. Very few mares are booked so far. I think things will change drastically the further along we get into breeding season.
There doesn't seem to be a lot of discounting going on in Kentucky either, at least not in our experience. Most of the prices got cut to some extent, but then they're holding firm. I think that by spring, breeders with an open mare will be looking at plenty of choices.
Afleet Alex's fee will go right back up after his first crop runs this year (or down, but I think he'll be good).
As mentioned in this string, an unintended benefit of lower sale prices are good horses staying in training an extra year or two instead of quickly going to stud. Unfortunately this wasn't the greatest 3 year old class.
It's good that the Breeder's Cup reinstated the $5 million dollars they supplement to 100 stake races. Otherwise that would have really discouraged longterm investment (mare breeding), further driving down fees.
As mentioned in this string, an unintended benefit of lower sale prices are good horses staying in training an extra year or two instead of quickly going to stud. Unfortunately this wasn't the greatest 3 year old class.
It's good that the Breeder's Cup reinstated the $5 million dollars they supplement to 100 stake races. Otherwise that would have really discouraged longterm investment (mare breeding), further driving down fees.
Maybe the stallion managers don't beleive the scare tactics the media is putting out there. If their clients aren't CEO's of the big 3 why worry. As someone posted this is a luxury business, people will always be involved. 95% of the people I know would not have a clue their was a recession if it wasn't the first thing on the news every evening at 6. Because in N.A. fear sells.
We have by far more booked this year at this point than we did last year.
We have by far more booked this year at this point than we did last year.
too weird to live...too rare to die
www.ascotstudfarm.com
www.ascotstudfarm.com
It has nothing to do with scare tactics, it has to do with sales results. Nearly every sale was down approx. 45%, most horses sold at a loss. Why in the world would everyone rush to breed their mares this year with a near guarantee that the foal will sell at a loss, if it even sells at all? I have 4 mares, and have no plans to breed, unless Im offered a deal I cant refuse. So far I havent been offered that deal. I still think very few stallion managers understand how deep the cuts need to be in stud fees. They aren't there yet.
AscotStud wrote:Maybe the stallion managers don't beleive the scare tactics the media is putting out there. If their clients aren't CEO's of the big 3 why worry. As someone posted this is a luxury business, people will always be involved. 95% of the people I know would not have a clue their was a recession if it wasn't the first thing on the news every evening at 6...
The TB industry is only a luxury business at the very top end. You must hang out with a very different crowd than I do. 95% of the people I know are licking their wounds and counting their losses. Small breeders, small farm owners, hay growers, van drivers...a lot of people are scrambling right now and a reasonably priced stud fee can make all the difference between a foal that's profitable and one that isn't.
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st. louis kid
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I have kind of had the feeling that many of the stud farms have been in a bit of a state of denial, this is not convincing me otherwise.
What's a little fear, like when people are laid off from jobs they have had for 25 years and can't find another one. Car dealerships shutting down, no new construction, home sales in the tank. My restaurants in Florida and Arizona did 30% of the busines they did 2 years ago in Nov.
Was in St. Armands Circle in Sarasota last week, it was a ghost town, in December! Oceanfront rooms going for $39.00 bucks a night.
Wait till Keen. Jan. and Fasig-Tipton Feb at Calder, I think prices will be down 50% from last year.
Stud farm owners need to recognize that their assets have declined 50% in value from last year and adjust their prices accordingly.
What's a little fear, like when people are laid off from jobs they have had for 25 years and can't find another one. Car dealerships shutting down, no new construction, home sales in the tank. My restaurants in Florida and Arizona did 30% of the busines they did 2 years ago in Nov.
Was in St. Armands Circle in Sarasota last week, it was a ghost town, in December! Oceanfront rooms going for $39.00 bucks a night.
Wait till Keen. Jan. and Fasig-Tipton Feb at Calder, I think prices will be down 50% from last year.
Stud farm owners need to recognize that their assets have declined 50% in value from last year and adjust their prices accordingly.
Yeah, I'm nervous. Though I'm in Indiana, and at least our purses are rising and believe it or not, the value of Indiana bred yearlings has actually increased recently. Still... nervous.
We advertise one price due when a foal stands and nurses and a discount if paid Sept. 1st. We will discount even more as a general rule the earlier a fee is paid. As always, we're advertising special consideration for approved mares, and this year we're also planning to offer additional discounts for Indiana mares. We're also willing to explore payment plans and creative terms on foal sharing... basically, we're willing to talk to mare owners and come up with something that will work for each one as an individual. If someone approaches us with a mare that fits well to one of the stallions here, we will be creative and flexible, and do everything in our power to make it happen.
We advertise one price due when a foal stands and nurses and a discount if paid Sept. 1st. We will discount even more as a general rule the earlier a fee is paid. As always, we're advertising special consideration for approved mares, and this year we're also planning to offer additional discounts for Indiana mares. We're also willing to explore payment plans and creative terms on foal sharing... basically, we're willing to talk to mare owners and come up with something that will work for each one as an individual. If someone approaches us with a mare that fits well to one of the stallions here, we will be creative and flexible, and do everything in our power to make it happen.
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st. louis kid
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The mare either has to be in the state of Indiana by Nov 1 of the year bred, or be bred back to an Indiana-registered stallion and remain at least 30 days after foaling for the foal she is CARRYING to be an Indiana bred. There are also restricted races for Indiana sired.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....