Giant's Causeway and the "non-turf"

[FOS]

hi Ruffian

Always good to hear from you.

I believe that the "Polytrack" synthetic replaced the "Equitrack" surface approx 2001.

FAQ for UK.sport.horseracing wrote about Equitrack "It tends to be more like good to firm on grass." But Equitrack is a thing of the past at Lingfield Park Race Course...and in recent years (since approx 2001) the surface there is Polytrack (as you know).

allweather-racing.com writes "Runners who excelled on firm ground used to have the edge on Equitrack, but today even those who have produced their best turf form on soft ground prove well suited by Polytrack." "The surface also offers more cushioning from it's predecessor."

Sounds like horses including those that like soft going (on the turf) have found a friend in Polytrack. Problem is...all horses liking Polytrack proves nothing as to whether or not they'd make the transition from Turf to DIRT...or can be fairly evaluated (or compared to true dirt horses) unless they race on the dirt.

My experience is that horses that produced their best form on soft turf are rarely capable of making the transition to dirt surfaces and maintaining their top form...

...although reports apparently indicate that they make the transition from soft turf to Polytrack synthetic.

Best to you.

Respectfully

[Ruffian]

I always am a bit shy of AW winners, (one-time, once only ever)!

As the AW form is a bit strange, i.e it is ALWAYS standard & you don't know (looking back 2 years on or so) if the track was deep, hard etc. as although it is All weather it does change radically- as expected!

Thanks FOS for digging that stuff up.

Ruffian

[hurleynyc]

Looking at a photo of the Lingfield track, I can see why one might refer to it as "dirt" especially to contrast it with the usual turf course in England, since the Polytrack appears to be brown in color - it does look a bit "dirt like" from distance! But FOS' description of it does set one straight on that - and it certainly doesn't sound like dirt when one reads about the materials comprising it.

In any event, if one's stated goal is to measure the performance of GC's runners on dirt, why not stick to results on dirt tracks rather than muddy the waters so to speak by including all "off turf" categories? Including English all weather tracks would seem to serve little purpose - i.e. mixing results on those surfaces doesn't really help in an analysis of GC by European breeders (because turf tracks predominate) or American breeders (no all weather tracks here).

But I certainly think ef's goal is a good one - it would be most interesting to see how GC's progeny perform on the dirt this year.

PS Ruffian, I hope your stallion is doing well!

[ef]

Again, for this that are interested (take what you want from it): two additional runners in the past two days for Giant's Causeway on the all weather:

Friday:
Giant's Rock, C, En Garde (Irish River) Wolverhampton 7f Hdcp (3yo, 0-70) --> lost rider (clipped heels when making headway in the stretch).


Saturday:
Art Modern, G, Sinead (Irish River) Lingfield 8f Mdn --> 1st
career debut; workman-like performance

[Ruffian]

Thanks Hurley he most certainly is- and getting very happy in a week or so

[hurleynyc]

Ruffian,
Glad to hear it! Yes, I'd imagine he will be enjoying life quite a bit in the near future!

And for those interested,
This just in, on the Polytrack issue: Apparently the owners of Turfway Park are performing a cost-benefit analysis to see whether installing a Polytrack surface would be profitable. Apparently, it would be the first in the U.S. (for racing).

http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/todays ... 1&subsec=1

[Mike]

Great thread. I look forward to reading more.

[ef]

This week's all weather performers for Giant's Causeway:

Mon Feb 21 2:45 @ Lingfield, 1 mile Hcp for 3 yr (0-70):
Giant's Rock, G, En Garde (Irish River) --> 2nd
managed to keep the rider on board this week; closed well for 2nd late.

Wed Feb 23 4:45 @ Lingfield, 1 mile 2 f Hcp for 3 yr (0-85):
Bridge Loan, C, Credit-A-Plenty (Generous) --> 1st
Easily won his second straight.

[LSB]

It's interesting that they ran Giant's Rock back only ten days after his last start. I wonder if that's just a difference in the way they do things there versus the way it's done here.

I'm enjoying your reports, ef.

[Ruffian]

It isn't unusual for low-level horses to run twice a week here. We only keep the good ones healthy !!!

(Flame suit on)

[Green Hills]

It isn't unusual for low-level horses to run twice a week here. We only keep the good ones healthy !!!

(Flame suit on)

Sadly, I'm afraid that goes on everywhere...

[ef]

That's what's so amazing about Australian racing- they will run their best horses back in a week! A recent example- Grand Armee, a Hennessy gelding, and arguably the best weight-for-age horse in Australia right now. He won a group 2 a week ago Saturday, setting a track record, then came back and won a group 1 this Saturday. Imagine if North American horses could do that...

It isn't unusual for low-level horses to run twice a week here. We only keep the good ones healthy !!!

(Flame suit on)

Sadly, I'm afraid that goes on everywhere...

[Green Hills]

That's what's so amazing about Australian racing- they will run their best horses back in a week! A recent example- Grand Armee, a Hennessy gelding, and arguably the best weight-for-age horse in Australia right now. He won a group 2 a week ago Saturday, setting a track record, then came back and won a group 1 this Saturday. Imagine if North American horses could do that...

They might well be able to...but why would we want to do that to them if it's not necessary?

[ef]

Because we like to see our race horses...run? Take Ghostzapper- loads of boring hype for a race every once in awhile. Give me a Grand Armee any day, but to each his own .

That's what's so amazing about Australian racing- they will run their best horses back in a week! A recent example- Grand Armee, a Hennessy gelding, and arguably the best weight-for-age horse in Australia right now. He won a group 2 a week ago Saturday, setting a track record, then came back and won a group 1 this Saturday. Imagine if North American horses could do that...

They might well be able to...but why would we want to do that to them if it's not necessary?

[ef]

In Dubai today:

1st race at Nad al Sheba, the San Isidro, a7f dirt:
British Isles, C, Giant's Causeway-Wildwood Flower (Distant Relative):
Finished 2nd, beaten over 4 lengths, in his career debut.