Discussion split ("Changing the face...")

[TrueColours]

What has she done that makes you think that? She was bred as a show horse and has only been a show horse. Never has she been in any speed events. Athletic ability cannot be judged by photos alone. She is an example of a nice hunter not a race horse...

Wrong ...

She was actually going to be a race horse and then the more I looked at her as she matured and developed, the more I moved my decision away from her going to the track and towards a show career instead.

Check out the DI = 19.00 CD = 1.50 on Puchi Trap. The mare is bred for speed and that is why I thought crossed with Guaranteed Gold it would be a perfect cross so no - Faux Finish has not been in any "speed events" but her dam sure was and if you factor in GG's eventing career as well, that also has speed combined with athletic ability as well

I cannot think of any cremello or perlino that are Hulk like or Mr Universe

Well - I can ...

My Pearlescent mare is 16.2hh++ now as a just turned 3 year old and to look at her, you would think she is a Hanoverian stallion. She is massive with huge bone, a wide chest, huge legs and a massive frame as well and there is no way in God's name she would ever produce ANYTHING that would have ANY success on the track and I wouldnt even waste my time trying. And it has nothing to do with the fact she is in foal - you cannot even tell by looking at her that she IS in foal. She is just a massively build perlino TB mare that would never be used for trying to produce race horses of any description ...

[BlazingColours]

VERY interesting discussion!

I honestly think the Guaranteed Gold / Puchi Trap cross would produce a very nice, very successful race horse. Not Kentucky Derby quality by any means but something that could pay its way and have some good success in the allowance and possibly lesser stake races. Puchi Trap was a real speedball and her foals mature quickly, well and strong with no soundness issues at all.

Thinking that cross *could* produce a race prospect is just that....You THINK. Try and sell a foal from that cross to a reputable race trainer and tell them you *THINK* it should do well. This is not meant to slam you but how much experience do you have with raising, developing and training race horses? For anyone in the race business to take what you *think* as anything more than that. Can you name some horses you have bred who you *thought* would make decent race horses that *made it*??

I think if she had been managed a little more prudently, she could have done far better at the track herself. I saw a video clip of her as a long yearling (in December of her yearling year! ) galloping at speed at the track, on frozen, cruddy, uneven footing and that did affect her long term soundness for sure. Despite that, she did have a decent race record in the few starts that she did have

Ahhhh the tale of every horse... they could have done better if this or that... There are just sooooooo many things that make race horses great and those that can stand up to cruddy surfaces etc... Those things are *unfortunately* a part of being a race horse. The footings vary at all tracks and even day to day with the weather. Sure a great trainer can make a difference but even that can be questionable.

So - if I dont sell them first and I can free up the $$$ to do so, I'd love to make one of those youngsters into a race horse at some point down the road

Then the best way to turn your *think* into a know is to put your money where your mouth is...

The I *thinks* or *could have* mean nothing in racing. Even those horses that do very well in the 2 year old in training sales do not all make great race horses. On top of everything else they have to have the heart and want to win!

Wrong ...

She was actually going to be a race horse and then the more I looked at her as she matured and developed, the more I moved my decision away from her going to the track and towards a show career instead.

Check out the DI = 19.00 CD = 1.50 on Puchi Trap. The mare is bred for speed and that is why I thought crossed with Guaranteed Gold it would be a perfect cross so no - Faux Finish has not been in any "speed events" but her dam sure was and if you factor in GG's eventing career as well, that also has speed combined with athletic ability as well

You must have forgotten the conversation we had when we use to talk all the time as friends, Donna. You said you had no intension of racing her; she was too precious to you. But that is besides the point since it is your word against mine. I am sorry, GG is nice and all, but his "career" in eventing. Define career??? How many classes did he enter, at what level and how many horses in his classes. He started out in eventing but in no way had a career at it. One season at pre-training is not what many people would consider a career. Again not slamming him but your statement is quite foggy about a career. From Wikipedia """Career is a term defined by the Oxford English Dictionary as an individual's "course or progress through life (or a distinct portion of life)"""

Quote from Blazing Colours:
I cannot think of any cremello or perlino that are Hulk like or Mr Universe

Well - I can ...

My Pearlescent mare is 16.2hh++ now as a just turned 3 year old and to look at her, you would think she is a Hanoverian stallion. She is massive with huge bone, a wide chest, huge legs and a massive frame as well and there is no way in God's name she would ever produce ANYTHING that would have ANY success on the track and I wouldnt even waste my time trying. And it has nothing to do with the fact she is in foal - you cannot even tell by looking at her that she IS in foal. She is just a massively build perlino TB mare that would never be used for trying to produce race horses of any description ...

As far a your Perlino TB mare being a hulk or Mr Universe... Again I guess that is going to depend on your definition of MR Universe or the HULK... You are so wrong Donna At least I hope sooooo.... I have a full sibling to your mare and she is a really nice size but is no Mr Universe! When Jorge said HULK or Mr universe I thought of the really BIG halter QH's who are usually not that athletic.. Your mare is equal to the photos at this link... http://images.google.ca/images?source=i ... 1&ct=title

or is your Perlino mare anything like these...

[TrueColours]

God knows April I have ignored the majority of your ignorant and veiled (and not so veiled ... ) comments directly pointed at me for long enough

For those that might have missed it:

As they become less rare I *hope* people stop sending young kids right to breeding

this was pointed at me, as the starter of this thread, for breeding my then 2 year old filly - Pearlescent

April. Its lame and its old already. If I may make a suggestion to you, perhaps concentrate on the well being of the animals in your care and your own breeding program instead.

Thinking that cross *could* produce a race prospect is just that....You THINK. Try and sell a foal from that cross to a reputable race trainer and tell them you *THINK* it should do well. This is not meant to slam you but how much experience do you have with raising, developing and training race horses? For anyone in the race business to take what you *think* as anything more than that. Can you name some horses you have bred who you *thought* would make decent race horses that *made it*??

Grow up April. I have never professed to breed for the track nor have I ever claimed to be a trainer of race horses either. *IF* Faux Finsh was to have gone to the track it would have been with me owning her - not me trying to sell her to someone as a "racing prospect" and not with *me* training her either. BIG difference. My very very first foray into "breeding for the track" is this year with my Alumni Hall/Regal Swan coming foal

There are just sooooooo many things that make race horses great and those that can stand up to cruddy surfaces etc...

Wow. Thank you SO much April. Your experience in race horses is underwhelming to me ... ... and you would quite frankly be the last person on earth I would go to for any opinion ...
Galloping a long yearling at speed on a cruddy track n December of its yearling year isnt high on my list of smart things to do with any horse but you choose to see it differently

Then the best way to turn your *think* into a know is to put your money where your mouth is...

Wow. Another gem from you ... ... I believe the vast majority of people on this board with few exceptions work damned hard for their money April and we have to pick and choose how we get to spend our money on the horses. We dont have money to build a "state of the art riding complex" but must make do with a mere barn to house our unfortunate creatures in ...
Maybe if you came down off your high horse occassionally you might see things in a more realistic, real life and appropriate manner. More in the manner that *we* tend to view things instead of from your rarified perspective ...

You said you had no intension of racing her; she was too precious to you.

Where DO you come up with this stuff from???

When Faux Finish was born and as a weanling, the intention was to race her. Hence the visit and the TV segment on her as a POTENTIAL RACE HORSE from the Horseplay staff when she was about 1-2 months old which aired on our CTV network. I'm sure that anyone that has received my DVD on Guaranteed Gold has seen this segment as it is in there. Once she hit a yearling / coming 2 year old - yes - I THEN made the decision not to run her but to show her instead.

What possible business is this of yours what I choose to do with ***MY*** horses??? And at what stage of their lives I make that decision???

I am sorry, GG is nice and all, but his "career" in eventing. Define career??? How many classes did he enter, at what level and how many horses in his classes. He started out in eventing but in no way had a career at it. One season at pre-training is not what many people would consider a career.

Again - get your facts straight April and again - what possible business is it of yours??? He finished 5th in the Region at the TRAINING level in his first season of competing, not Pre Training.

Why do you care so damned much about what GG has done? Why not concentrate on getting your stallions out there competing so that people can decide if they like yours better than mine or better than another cremello out there? You know what they say about people trying to rip apart the competition trying to make their product look better? It backfires and makes them look like petty and vindictive assholes instead ...

As far a your Perlino TB mare being a hulk or Mr Universe... Again I guess that is going to depend on your definition of MR Universe or the HULK... You are so wrong Donna

How the HELL would you know April??? You have never even SEEN her so who are YOU to tell ME I am wrong???

Maybe concentrate more on the welfare and well being of your own stock rather than commenting on other breeders

But - to refute your assinine comments yet again, I will get a friend to come on this thread and comment on Pearlescent's stature and size as she has seen her twice in the last week, she is into TB's, has seen tens of thousands of them and would be in a wonderful position to offer an unbiased comment as to what she thinks of Pearl ...

Anything else you care to question on my breeding program or my horses at all???

[soft hearted]

Oh jaysus, could you just GET A ROOM?
For the record, whatever happened to Whatever, the filly you were training for the track - and it was a BONUS that she was deaf because nothing startled her?
But then, she got sold on, and on and on.. the way of the horse world.
So be it.
Or, in you breeding every mare that has a uterus.
(it's nice that you've offered GG to help rehome rescued TB mares from slaughter, but really!).
Enough already.
Ontario (let alone Canada) is quite big enough for everyone isn't it?
Two colour breeders at least?
Or are you just miffed about Sato not being in your barn any more?
I get the idea that BC has worked pretty hard to get where they are, so.. um.. maybe one of you should stick to breeding and the other to bedding?

[moetetchandon]

Jorge: "Thoroughbreds and only Thoroughbreds are better defended within the protective paradigm that justified their existence, that is, racing ability"

Thank you so much for posting that, Jorge. The thoroughbred breed exists primarily for the purpose of racing. Every other discipline is secondary. As such, thoroughbred breeders need to keep that in mind. Having said that, obviously there are going to be certain lines and/or certain individual horses which do not do well at racing. If they do well at other disciplines, that is great. And if there is color involved, fine. But it should be secondary to everything else.

Blazing Colors has solid knowledge of racing, but she doesn't breed for racing. For True Colors to make snide comments about this is snarky and immature. And throwing out a comment about a dosage index does not exactly paint True Colors as a racing expert. Blazing Colors also has solid knowledge of breeding for sport (horses), and as her website states, breeds for colored sport horses. I wish her all the best. She has some lovely stock. She also very seldom gets rude and snarky on forums unless absolutely pushed to the limit, and who can blame her then? There is only so much that a person should have to have thrown at them.

I too am interested in why True Colors decided not to put Whatever into training for the track. And there were plans for Faux Finish to join her there. Possibly the trainer (who I know, by the way) advised against it. Or True Colors realized that neither of these horses were potential race successful race horses. As for the comment about galloping on a cruddy track, I doubt you would know a cruddy track from a good one. And frozen? Every winter track I have seen is harrowed and is either sand, sand mix or all weather. Horses out west gallop on shavings laid over the surface. Maybe you should stick to what you know. If that is bedding and bossy bibs, so be it. Either that, or stop snarking at everyone who questions you or responds to a nasty statement you have made.

The last thing I wanted to do was to make my opening post on this site one with a negative leaning. The attacking and name calling was too much to ignore though.

True Colors, you have appeared on many forum sites and the result is always the same. Things always turn into either a thinly disguised ad for your stallion or his offspring or an attack on another breeder. It is getting really tiring. I think there is room for more than one color breeder in southern Ontario. But if one of them is acting like a child, it will never work.

Do not expect me to get into a slamming match with you True Colors. From here on in, I would prefer, if at all possible to respond to posts from people who can maturely discuss color breeding. It is a much better way for me to understand the genetics and ins and outs of color breeding.

[BlazingColours]

Not going to get into it all as TC; you always try to have an answer for everything. With respect to breeding young horses... It was aimed at ALL coloured breeders doing it, not pointing at you. If you took it that way, so be it.

What is my business and not my business... well all I can say about that is when you post something with facts not being clear, I like to make them clear. I did not rip any of your horses apart. I said FF was a nice hunter, just not a race horse. And GG is a nice and all... but a career in eventing he did not have. I think that is misleading to the public who reads this when you say career. I do ride, take lessons and show my stallions as well as kids. I have had my guys with notable trainers over the years and showing on the A's.

And work hard for my life... Damn straight I do. Up at by 7 working with the horses and the last work is done by about 9. Still have to head out and do night check on 35 horses here. I have invested my hard earned dollars well and can build a nice facility to ride, train and hold shows in. Nothing to be ashamed of here.

I would love for all of us to get along. And I wish TC would understand that I may not agree with everything she does and not like every horse she owns. That does mean I am out to get her or put down her horses. I quite like some of them. I am free to voice my opinions. TC for the record... I am in no way out to attack you or belittle your horses I simply have my own opinions about things and have no problem saying so.

No more comments from me on those subjects... Back to the original topic...

[SouthernStar]

Honestly there just isn't much anyone can add at this point
The BEST way to promote these horses is TRUTH in advertising, height conformation etc. pick the best mares and breed BETTER horses. People can determine a stallion's value just by looking at the offspring and what they have done. As there are more stallions available out there I am sure it will no longer be enough to sell breeding's based on color alone.

I am sure that Pearlescent is very nice TC, she should be with her pedigree.

[TrueColours]

Oh geez. Where to start with all of this crap???

Here goes ...

For the record, whatever happened to Whatever, the filly you were training for the track - and it was a BONUS that she was deaf because nothing startled her?

Quite frankly none of your business. I sold her. The lady I sold her to sold her again. She is now up for sale yet again. Have you also questionned THEM why they sold her as well?

And she never was "in training for the track". She wasnt even backed when I sold her. Get your facts straight please

Or, in you breeding every mare that has a uterus.

Uh no. Just the quality ones

(it's nice that you've offered GG to help rehome rescued TB mares from slaughter, but really!).
Enough already.

You are a real peach arent you? I have made an agreement with a lady who rescues TB mares who are headed on their way to the meat man and if we BOTH COLLECTIVELY DECIDE that this mare has enough going for her that by putting her in foal to GG, we can find her a good new home, so be it. One more mare has been saved.

Is this REALLY any of your damned business at all??? And would you prefer the alternative of shipping her for meat instead???

Or are you just miffed about Sato not being in your barn any more?

Uh no. April is well aware of my feelings on this subject but seeing as you dont appear to be, here they are

I LOVED Sato AS A STALLION and when the opportunity was presented to me to buy him, I tried every which way that I could to get the money together to buy him but was unable to do so.

As much as I loved him as a stallion, and still do to be very honest, I do not like him as a sire. If I had purchased him and saw what his foals were looking like as maturing yearlings, two year olds and three year olds, I can guarantee one thing to you for sure - he would no longer be in my barn nor in my breeding program. Period. I hope that as his foals get older, they prove me wrong and excel in performance events but I guess only time will tell

So - far from being "miffed" I am unbelievably relieved

I get the idea that BC has worked pretty hard to get where they are, so.. um.. maybe one of you should stick to breeding and the other to bedding?

Never said she didnt work hard, but believe me - so do I and I think with the success my homebred youngsters have had on the North American stage, thanks for the lovely suggestion but I think I'll continue on with my breeding AND my bedding sales for awhile longer yet ...

And on to brand new poster Moetandchandon who saw fit to make this thread her very first post!

She also very seldom gets rude and snarky on forums unless absolutely pushed to the limit, and who can blame her then? There is only so much that a person should have to have thrown at them.

Please explain where any rude and snarky comments were thrown at April? With her opening post on what should have been a fun and informative thread for colour breeders and fan alike, she chose to start to sling the mud.

I too am interested in why True Colors decided not to put Whatever into training for the track

As mentioned, none of your business to be very honest. Do you question everyone why they sell their horses or only me?

And there were plans for Faux Finish to join her there

Hardly likely as by the time Whatever got here as a 2 year old, Faux Finish was also a 2 year old and the decision had already been made the year before to follow a show career with her instead. Get your facts straight as well ...

Possibly the trainer (who I know, by the way) advised against it

Now this is where you are totally full of shit. The trainer I used before was NOT approached on either of these horses. So - enlighten us - tell us what trainer that I hadnt even spoken to let alone decided on yet you know and advised against it???

As for the comment about galloping on a cruddy track, I doubt you would know a cruddy track from a good one. And frozen? Every winter track I have seen is harrowed and is either sand, sand mix or all weather. Horses out west gallop on shavings laid over the surface. Maybe you should stick to what you know

Did you see the video clip? No? Then you dont have ANY opinion and are merely speculating. DO you know what track she was galloping on? No? Then again - keep your assinine comments to yourself ...

Either that, or stop snarking at everyone who questions you or responds to a nasty statement you have made.

The Kool Aid has really kicked in hasnt it? WHAT snarky comments other than telling April to grow up and keep her "veiled" comments to herself? How about the comments April posted that prompted these responses from other members:

TC....she is absolutely gorgeous!!!

Not sure why BC even needed to post the pics or comment.....not needed at all in my opinion, but not the first time I've seen it.

and:

Blazing, I have no idea what your history with Donna is, but she is far more gracious than you. What a snarky comment from you! Seriously, if you can't say anything nice, keep yer trap shut!

I think there is room for more than one color breeder in southern Ontario. But if one of them is acting like a child, it will never work.

Agreed. Once April stops the sniping I'm sure all will be well ...


And now on to Blazing Colours post ...

Not going to get into it all as TC; you always try to have an answer for everything.

It stinks when I'm right and thats all you can come up with ...

With respect to breeding young horses... It was aimed at ALL coloured breeders doing it, not pointing at you. If you took it that way, so be it.

This is now the 3rd such dig pointed directly at me. If you chose to explain it away as being a random comment, you might get one or two people that actually believe you. The rest wont.

I said FF was a nice hunter, just not a race horse

I guess we'll never know will we, as she never even got to Square 1 as a race horse. Its different if she had tried and failed, but we never decided to try with her at all.

[qoute]And work hard for my life... Damn straight I do. Up at by 7 working with the horses and the last work is done by about 9. Still have to head out and do night check on 35 horses here. [/quote]

Great. Congratulations. I am up at 5:30 and do night check at 9:00 so I am done about 9:30 - 10:00. I dont think this is a contest to see who gets up earlier or gets to bed later is it???

I would love for all of us to get along. And I wish TC would understand that I may not agree with everything she does and not like every horse she owns. That does mean I am out to get her or put down her horses. I quite like some of them. I am free to voice my opinions. TC for the record... I am in no way out to attack you or belittle your horses I simply have my own opinions about things and have no problem saying so.

Perfect. Something we CAN finally agree on. Stop the sniping and the backhanded comments and the posting of shitty pictures when it suits you to do so. yes - I will agree I have done the same in the past but to enlighten those on this board who probably missed the thread you started on EMG on the kill auction results, it was specifically when you chose to make derogatory comments about the prices on the offspring from MY stallion that I countered with pictures of the offspring from YOUR stallion. Tit for tat April. You cannot dish the shit out and then cry foul when it is slung right back at you

And in closing, I sincerely hope that you have found what the problems are with the Golden Belle mare and she is well on her way to better health and a good recovery. It would be a loss if she was to no longer be a part of your breeding program

And to FINALLY add to this thread in the spirit in which this thread was started, I would love it if we could collectively petition the Jockey Club to get their facts straight with the registration of these *different* coloured Thoroughbreds, once and for all. The Nightlight filly (smoky black) has been applied for as "black" with substantiating proof through her DNA sample that she IS in fact smoky black and not bay/brown. That one I will fight tooth and nail on to ensure she is correctly registered as black and nothing else and I will let everyone know how I make out when their response and her papers come back

Count me in and let me know what I need to do ...

[BlazingColours]

Not going to get into it all as TC; you always try to have an answer for everything.

It stinks when I'm right and thats all you can come up with ...

Far from is Donna... I just know you always have a hard time with the fact that not everybody likes all your horses or agrees with everything you do or say. Not to say you are wrong and others are right... we just have different opinions. And that REALLY is okay. If everyone agreed all the time, what a boring place this would be.

If you post about this new mare being yours... you love her... can wait to do this or that with her, she is going to have gorgeous marketable foals.... THEN you sell her. (because you do, do that a lot) I do not see it out of line for the very people who read all those posts, to ask why she was sold or where she went. You have sort of made it their business, no? So if posters ask about the Whatever mare, or the many other mares... why not say where they went or why you did not follow through with plans you said you were going to do. If it is no one business, then do not post photos of them all over the place and take all the congrats, without answering the questions people have later on. JMO. And because you thought it important to bring into this thread...The last mare you bought and sold... I did not like her from any of the photos I saw. The cute ones you posted when she gained weight, were cute but did not show her conformation which was what I did not like in the first photos. I said if you posted some of her conformation that made her look better, I may change my mind. But you never did. You said she was not as hot as the owners told me and I can understand that after being let down from the track. So my opinion on her still stands.

With respect to breeding young horses... It was aimed at ALL coloured breeders doing it, not pointing at you. If you took it that way, so be it

This is now the 3rd such dig pointed directly at me. If you chose to explain it away as being a random comment, you might get one or two people that actually believe you. The rest wont. .

You think you are the only one who has done this. okay I can name 4 others off the top of my head who do it as well. And I would think you know some of them. Some breeders never start any kids under saddle. It is a shame, a damn shame. So it is not directed right at you. Not everything I say or post about is directed at you. Do not know why you seem to think it is. Again ""Not to say you are wrong and others are right... we just have different opinions. And that REALLY is okay.""

And in closing, I sincerely hope that you have found what the problems are with the Golden Belle mare and she is well on her way to better health and a good recovery. It would be a loss if she was to no longer be a part of your breeding program

Nope she is not better, far from it. She is still quite sick and has been on so many different meds and seen 8 vets. Xrays of everything, ultrasounds and blood tests weekly. No one can pin point what her problem is. I am quite upset about it... so if you were really interested and not just taking a stab, know ya know. Poor mare, my heart aches for her.

And thanks for being tactful about your comments on Sato. I can hear what you say and though I do not agree, it was put tactfully. Sato is starting to have kids hit riding age now and the first homebred filly we had at our RPSI inspection last year, got the title of premium mare. Her score was the 3 or 4th highest of all TB mares presented in North America. So give him a few more years and you might change your mind or maybe not. I am very impressed with his foals. He does not add height so he needs to be bred to mares 16.1h+ to get a 16h+ horse. The temperament, conformation and movement he passes on is lovely.


So Jorge you now have 3 of us on board. And with the amount of foal the three of us breeders put out there... That is a good sized group.

[reedhill]

BC when you speak about other breeders breeding young horses, darn right we are. With my disabilities not to mention my husbands, we are lucky to be be breeding anything much less horses, angus, and hay by ourselves with no help. We are small but breed good quality and continue to improve our mares as we are able. You have been very fortunate to find the resources to buy your double dilute mares from Red Fox, and now lease their lovely El Dorado. It seems your double dilute mares have gone right to breeding, with the exception of running them around a triangle for Oldenburg. Should I say to you "what a shame"? Some of us have to start our dreams out at ground zero with colored TB's and and breed slowly. My horse showing days were diversified and now over, starting youngsters was my passion. No money trees grow in TN, so we are very limited to what we're doing. We all work hard, God knows there is nothing easy about showing or breeding 1300lb animals.

I AM SAYING THIS TO EVERYONE INCLUDING MYSELF .......... Don't let yourselves get hardened in this business. Remember what the feeling of not knowing what color your getting from breeding feels like, lets please try and keep the glory in this adventure to so toxic, it draws new buyers like flys to honey. We will probably never be able to live long enough to see completely how all our contributions to this "sport" play out, but wouldn't it be cool for our names to be written somewhere in TB history as those who "thought out of the box" and were the "cowboys" of how the next generations continue what you all have started? GOSH that would be cool!

I agree with Jorge about bringing color through racing to get "real" recognition, 100% and hope to try in a small way. BUT, the reality side of it is, breeders that have shown themselves want something different in the market to make income. We are not scarred to be odd. Most of us it looks like, don't have a racing backround, which really hurts. I think color is going to enter the show rings first, then drizzle into racing as some try and sell the color at racing sales. Even though the 60K white colt was not officially sold, there is still a great vibe about the sabino and dilutes in black and white. In this horrible economy, when sales are down, we are blessed to not be breeding what every other Jack and Jane is breeding, and there will always be buyers with money to spend.

PLEASE - PLEASE - don't tear at eachother or me, LOL. Let be what is and go on enjoying what this short life has to offer.

[BlazingColours]

BC when you speak about other breeders breeding young horses, darn right we are. With my disabilities not to mention my husbands, we are lucky to be be breeding anything much less horses, angus, and hay by ourselves with no help. We are small but breed good quality and continue to improve our mares as we are able. You have been very fortunate to find the resources to buy your double dilute mares from Red Fox, and now lease their lovely El Dorado. It seems your double dilute mares have gone right to breeding, with the exception of running them around a triangle for Oldenburg. Should I say to you "what a shame"? Some of us have to start our dreams out at ground zero with colored TB's and and breed slowly. My horse showing days were diversified and now over, starting youngsters was my passion. No money trees grow in TN, so we are very limited to what we're doing. We all work hard, God knows there is nothing easy about showing or breeding 1300lb animals.

I AM SAYING THIS TO EVERYONE INCLUDING MYSELF .......... Don't let yourselves get hardened in this business. Remember what the feeling of not knowing what color your getting from breeding feels like, lets please try and keep the glory in this adventure to so toxic, it draws new buyers like flys to honey. We will probably never be able to live long enough to see completely how all our contributions to this "sport" play out, but wouldn't it be cool for our names to be written somewhere in TB history as those who "thought out of the box" and were the "cowboys" of how the next generations continue what you all have started? GOSH that would be cool!

I agree with Jorge about bringing color through racing to get "real" recognition, 100% and hope to try in a small way. BUT, the reality side of it is, breeders that have shown themselves want something different in the market to make income. We are not scarred to be odd. Most of us it looks like, don't have a racing backround, which really hurts. I think color is going to enter the show rings first, then drizzle into racing as some try and sell the color at racing sales. Even though the 60K white colt was not officially sold, there is still a great vibe about the sabino and dilutes in black and white. In this horrible economy, when sales are down, we are blessed to not be breeding what every other Jack and Jane is breeding, and there will always be buyers with money to spend.

PLEASE - PLEASE - don't tear at eachother or me, LOL. Let be what is and go on enjoying what this short life has to offer.

Yes let us all enjoy it. My cremello and perlino TB mares are broke to ride. They did also do the triangle for Oldenburg. I did not breed them as 2 year olds (I did not own them but their previous owner did not breed them as kids either) That is something I simply do not agree with. I am not right or wrong... it is just my opinion. My cremello had her first foal at 5 and the perlino had her first at 4 after. I have a 3 year old cremello filly who is being broke (I rode her today). I *hope* to have her ready for the CUP classes in September. If we do not start them how can we know the rideability. I was fortunate to get El Dorado but it was because I DO RIDE and SHOW my stallions. He has been in training here and is doing very well. He should be out by the summer. I would have loved to have him out last year but he was not ready with only a couple months back under saddle.

I do think that it is quite important to get kids by our (your, mine, TC etc...) stallions out there and showing. If we can sell some as foals great! If we are keeping some or some do not sell, they should be broke. Mares also need to be at least broke, IMO. My oldest kids are 5 and not one of those mares will ever be bred until they have had some kind of show career.

[reedhill]

You have the ideal situation up there April. Money, time, and health, you are very fortunate. I can no longer ride unless I get some bones fixed. But with our work load, if I could ride, I still wouldn't have the time or money to train and show now (not to mention 2 very active boys 5 and 15 y/o). It is vital, that our youngstock do the very best they can for us, and we sell our foals before they are 2 y/o, so those pros and young awesome riders out there, grab them, put everything in them they possibly can, and make me proud of what I have offered. I'm a retired nurse, I was trained not to belittle those who are doing thier very best in life with what they have. I have befriended and cared for some very poor and unhealthy folks, and they always brought me down to reality. I think we are all proud of what you are doing, but remember, EVERYONE can not, and is not set up to be a full fledged breeding, training, showing facility. Be proud, but be humble as well.

[SouthernStar]

Seriously ReedHill??? http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/sh ... lamystique I remember not that very long ago this post, and it seems like BC was coming to your defense.
Your seriously saying that the ONLY thing that BC has done with her horses is have them approved for breeding by Oldenburg? I don't know too many TB breeders that have done even this. Do you have ANY idea of how much money it takes to have ONE stallion at a trainer? Showing fees, inspection fees? Are ANY of your stallions training and showing? So what if BC is leasing El Dorado, maybe now he will get shown. Great GG had a show record once before you got him TC and you said you were going to show him many times...
We aren't blind, I think those of us who know these stallions know their flaws. What their true height is, conformation etc. who photoshops what, but that isn't the point of this post. I wouldn't be throwing stones personally it started with Norsire and TC and the www thought they were NUTS. Look at the crazy TB breeders. And it continues...
What can be done to stop the madness and just keep it in private where it belongs? This crap stays on the internet forever and is certainly NOT helping.
WE NEED to be taken seriously as breeders, we need to produce better horses that can actually do something. So, isn't the true nature of this post how we can do that?

[reedhill]

Seriously ReedHill??? http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/sh ... lamystique I remember not that very long ago this post, and it seems like BC was coming to your defense.
Your seriously saying that the ONLY thing that BC has done with her horses is have them approved for breeding by Oldenburg? I don't know too many TB breeders that have done even this. Do you have ANY idea of how much money it takes to have ONE stallion at a trainer? Showing fees, inspection fees? Are ANY of your stallions training and showing? So what if BC is leasing El Dorado, maybe now he will get shown. Great GG had a show record once before you got him TC and you said you were going to show him many times...
We aren't blind, I think those of us who know these stallions know their flaws. What their true height is, conformation etc. who photoshops what, but that isn't the point of this post. I wouldn't be throwing stones personally it started with Norsire and TC and the www thought they were NUTS. Look at the crazy TB breeders. And it continues...
What can be done to stop the madness and just keep it in private where it belongs? This crap stays on the internet forever and is certainly NOT helping.
WE NEED to be taken seriously as breeders, we need to produce better horses that can actually do something. So, isn't the true nature of this post how we can do that?

SS you aparently choose to ignore what I wrote, nor choose to try and be civil. I am not against any color breeder, but I do think like yourself you ought to find out a bit more about the people you put down in public, which is a disgrace. Do I know how much $ it takes to raise, import show WB's? You are kidding right? That's funny. And what in hell does that have to do with colored TB's, nothing. If I want to breed yearling Zebras in winter, that's my choice. SS you are the type of madness that the moderaters ought to step up and do something about, especially when you resort to digging up sewage about my stallion from the sewage chronicle. That goes to show, how low you need to go to get recognition, that's pathetic.

If the moderators don't stop this kind of useless bashing, the useful people on this board will not return. If all that goes on here is bashing, what in the hell is the purpose of trying to make positive changes.

Jorge I really think you and your ideas are all alone on here. I don't think these people appreciate you, or your knowledge, or want to change things for the better, but just stew about how good they are, and how much money they have or can get, and that they are showing their freaking stallions, big whoop! I'm going to go enjoy giving my son a back rub and go watch my mares. One thing is for sure, they are not as depressing as this place has become. YUCK!

[Desert Oasis Sporthorses]

I am a newbie to this board. I came here looking for insight, suggestions, more information about colored stock. I am new in the breeding industry. I have been fortunate to be able to acquire a white stallion, a white mare and a dual registered mare. My husband and I work full time and have the full time farm. Not just horses; we hay and raise other livestock. I was hoping that this board would be a little different from some of the other forums I have been on. Unfortunately, with this particular post, it appears that everyone wants to point fingers at everyone else. We should all be willing to share our joys, tears. We should praise those who finally made it and offer encouragement to those of us who are still struggling. It would make it a better forum if things were shared, not just heated words. Maybe I'm a fool expecting people to get along, at least the appearance of getting along. Professionalism comes to mind. None of us will ever agree with everything everybody else likes, that is what makes us all unique, kinda like the horses we breed. There is a private message section if there is something that you want to hash out with someone. It does not need to be public. Maybe I should keep my mouth shut, but I was really disappointed to see that this forum really isn't much different than others. I was hoping it was.