two scenarios
One is mare with blue hen maybe 6 families with solid performers but nothing much since the great grand dam
Two is a mare with an obscure pedigree past the great grand dam but some recent SW and graded stakes performers. In this scenario the rest of the ff is still dormant.
In other words, does perhaps a situation when a branch of the ff 'wakes up' something desirable or a foolish pursuit/freak.
In scenario 1 there is always the hope that the 'blue hen' family will come through again - for those who place a strong emphasis on the ff almost to the exclusion of the sire line
jm
which would you prefer?
Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster, Lucy
which would you prefer?
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.
I think this is where you need to look at the whole package. Has mare 1 ff gone dormant because somebody poisoned the gene pool? By that I mean did they start breeding set sprinter mares to staying stallions or vice versa. In that case you leave the mare alone because you expect it to take 2 to 3 generations of good breeding to bring the ff back. The mares conformation can give you strong clues about this as well. I have a mare which I'm building back through careful breeding, and it is extremely rewarding working with her first grand foal, but it does take a lot of time and money to do it.
With mare 2 the question becomes can you find the right stallions to keep the quality of the ff progressing. I've got a mare like this and have just about given up on her because every sire I thought might work with her has produced a disappointing foal.
If you can see a long term plan through, option 1 has more potential. If you need the project to finance at least part of itself option 2 is the way to go because the first foals out of the mare will be marketable even if you aren't sure how to breed to the obscure pedigree.
With mare 2 the question becomes can you find the right stallions to keep the quality of the ff progressing. I've got a mare like this and have just about given up on her because every sire I thought might work with her has produced a disappointing foal.
If you can see a long term plan through, option 1 has more potential. If you need the project to finance at least part of itself option 2 is the way to go because the first foals out of the mare will be marketable even if you aren't sure how to breed to the obscure pedigree.
Thanks for your observations, Dave.
Talk about a crap shoot. Your scenario 1 means a couple of generations before you can hope to get back on track - then you need to hit a home run to get back what you put in. In this scenario are you trying to 'correct' the breeding errors by inbreeding to influences that would bring back what was lost (like stamina) by the poor decisions?
Regarding your experience with scenario 2, did you know at foaling that you did not get what you wanted (from the sire) or did you have to get to the race track to determine this? ie. foal wins beauty contest but can't run a lick. It might take a really dominant sire that stamps his get to give you what you are looking for?
I would assume a breed-to-race guy would go scenario 2 only.
jm
Talk about a crap shoot. Your scenario 1 means a couple of generations before you can hope to get back on track - then you need to hit a home run to get back what you put in. In this scenario are you trying to 'correct' the breeding errors by inbreeding to influences that would bring back what was lost (like stamina) by the poor decisions?
Regarding your experience with scenario 2, did you know at foaling that you did not get what you wanted (from the sire) or did you have to get to the race track to determine this? ie. foal wins beauty contest but can't run a lick. It might take a really dominant sire that stamps his get to give you what you are looking for?
I would assume a breed-to-race guy would go scenario 2 only.
jm
Run the race - the one that's really worth winning.
With my scenario 1 mare her issue was soundness not ability. So I've been working on breeding soundness in while keeping the ability. Her first two daughters were more sound but still had their racing compromised by injuries. In my case the mares' genes weren't corrupted.
I have a friend who bought a daughter of Alydar who I wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole because Alydar was so wrong for her dam and the mare has totally screwed up conformation and couldn't run a lick because of it. This is the type of mare that you send to a stallion that stamps his foals and hope you get daughters that can be bred back to the right type of stallion to produce a good racehorse. This simply isn't worth the effort in my opinion because there isn't much fun to be had while you wait.
With my scenario 2 horse, her foals can run, just not with the ability I expected from them. Her first foal has moved on to be a successful dressage horse, after running for bottoms for a couple of years. I usually know within a few months whether they will amount to anything just by watching how they run in the pastures, I haven't been wrong yet but I keep hoping. If they can't keep up to the mares who put up 21 second quarters (at the track) when the mare aren't in race shape the foal isn't likely to have the speed to do alot.
I have a friend who bought a daughter of Alydar who I wouldn't have touched with a ten foot pole because Alydar was so wrong for her dam and the mare has totally screwed up conformation and couldn't run a lick because of it. This is the type of mare that you send to a stallion that stamps his foals and hope you get daughters that can be bred back to the right type of stallion to produce a good racehorse. This simply isn't worth the effort in my opinion because there isn't much fun to be had while you wait.
With my scenario 2 horse, her foals can run, just not with the ability I expected from them. Her first foal has moved on to be a successful dressage horse, after running for bottoms for a couple of years. I usually know within a few months whether they will amount to anything just by watching how they run in the pastures, I haven't been wrong yet but I keep hoping. If they can't keep up to the mares who put up 21 second quarters (at the track) when the mare aren't in race shape the foal isn't likely to have the speed to do alot.
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Have you looked at the conformation and muscle type of the last good runners from either of these mares?
You will have the same mtDNA in the female family, and there may be physical types that work best with this kind of cell fuel. If for example you find that the best racers are long lean distance types, you might want to try to introduce that type of stallion to your mare.
And of course I have no qualifications to make any suggestions so the free advice is worth what you pay for it.
Good luck.
You will have the same mtDNA in the female family, and there may be physical types that work best with this kind of cell fuel. If for example you find that the best racers are long lean distance types, you might want to try to introduce that type of stallion to your mare.
And of course I have no qualifications to make any suggestions so the free advice is worth what you pay for it.
Good luck.