Zenyatta Training Well

[TJ]

Hi Dub,
If you owned Blame, would you say that? Ya know. it is what it is.....you can only run against what's out there.....Do you think Zenyatta can handle Quality Road on the dirt? TJ

Jury is still out on Blame.
Z is too strong for the 3 year olds over that distance.

What about Quality Road over the classice distance?
Will Z mow him down, would like to see that match up lets hope it happens.

Hi D,
That's my point exactly.....why did we have to wait so long to see Z kick some butt over the dirt against the best that's out there??? The English bookmakers make Z and Lookin At Lucky the Breeder Cup Classic favorites right now. Then Blame...Quality Road...Afleet Express, Fly Down and Rachel Alexandra. TJ

[jagger]

English Bookmakers? Pigs will fly before Rachel enters the Classic. What do they know. I think the likely race for her will be the Ladies Classic. She won't face 2 time champion Goldikova in the Mile and won't do the Filly and Mare Turf because of the distance (1 1/4)

[DuncanPatch]

Zenyatta has already beaten not only this country's best in last year's BC classic, but also some of Europe's best -- some of whom are better this year and will be coming to the Classic again (e.g., Rip Van Winkle, possibly Twice Over, and some newcomers). She has already won at least twice on dirt at Oaklawn. She can only beat those who run against her -- and if they want to try to beat her, they can go to California.

The point I think being missed here is that Zenyatta has yet to be challenged to her depth -- even in last year's BC Classic. The achievement of 18 in a row is historic -- hasn't happened since 1881. No small feat. (Not counting Pepper's Pride, no slight intended, but running only against New Mexican-breds isn't in the same league.) More important is the way she wins: even when the pace is slow, or the distance too short. She does everything easily, which is not something that can be said of any American horse currently running -- even Quality Road. Rachel A. cannot win at a mile and a quarter, and Zenyatta has no reason to meet her to prove she's the better horse: she is the better horse, and anyone who knows what they're seeing when they see a racehorse run knows this. The competition is what it is: this is the same knock we heard against Cigar, that he "didn't beat anybody." But if you saw Cigar run, you knew he was going to beat "anybody" who came against him, for 16 in a row. Citation didn't do too badly either, going the same 16 consecutive races. Why knock Zenyatta or diminish her achievement? Why is running on dirt more important than running on grass or synthetics? And how long do you think it will be before we see another of Zenyatta's caliber, a horse who can win on dirt, synthetics (and probably grass), against anybody, 18 times in a row at the highest level of competition? If racing had udnerstood the importance of television 30 years ago, it would be the number one spectator sport in America, and Zenyatta would be its No. 1 star athlete. Yes, 18 in a row is important, for the same reason Secretariat's Belmont is important.

As for the "beating the boys" nonsense, it is tiring, outdated, sexist, and irrelevant. Why not rave about Goldikova, or Ouija Board, or Vodka, or Zarkova -- all current or recent "girls" who "beat boys." Around the world fillies and colts compete regularly against each other, and this is not a big deal.

I personally don't care who gets HOY title. Zenyatta is Horse of the Decade as far as I'm concerned, no matter what she does or doesn't do next. I only wish I had a fraction of what her first foal will be worth when it hits the ground!

[TJ]

English Bookmakers? Pigs will fly before Rachel enters the Classic. What do they know. I think the likely race for her will be the Ladies Classic. She won't face 2 time champion Goldikova in the Mile and won't do the Filly and Mare Turf because of the distance (1 1/4)

Hi Jagger,
They are bookmakers....they would love it if you bet on a horse and they don't show up for the race:>) Rachel will most likely run in the Beldame....the race that Zenyatta should be in, her name would be in lights along side of great distaffer's if she won that race. That would be the first step for her if she wants HOY, plus she gets a race over the dirt before she has to go over in the Classic....which means a lot....especially in this classic. No turf horses trying a new surface in this one. TJ

[TJ]

Zenyatta has already beaten not only this country's best in last year's BC classic, but also some of Europe's best -- some of whom are better this year and will be coming to the Classic again (e.g., Rip Van Winkle, possibly Twice Over, and some newcomers). She has already won at least twice on dirt at Oaklawn. She can only beat those who run against her -- and if they want to try to beat her, they can go to California.

The point I think being missed here is that Zenyatta has yet to be challenged to her depth -- even in last year's BC Classic. The achievement of 18 in a row is historic -- hasn't happened since 1881. No small feat. (Not counting Pepper's Pride, no slight intended, but running only against New Mexican-breds isn't in the same league.) More important is the way she wins: even when the pace is slow, or the distance too short. She does everything easily, which is not something that can be said of any American horse currently running -- even Quality Road. Rachel A. cannot win at a mile and a quarter, and Zenyatta has no reason to meet her to prove she's the better horse: she is the better horse, and anyone who knows what they're seeing when they see a racehorse run knows this. The competition is what it is: this is the same knock we heard against Cigar, that he "didn't beat anybody." But if you saw Cigar run, you knew he was going to beat "anybody" who came against him, for 16 in a row. Citation didn't do too badly either, going the same 16 consecutive races. Why knock Zenyatta or diminish her achievement? Why is running on dirt more important than running on grass or synthetics? And how long do you think it will be before we see another of Zenyatta's caliber, a horse who can win on dirt, synthetics (and probably grass), against anybody, 18 times in a row at the highest level of competition? If racing had udnerstood the importance of television 30 years ago, it would be the number one spectator sport in America, and Zenyatta would be its No. 1 star athlete. Yes, 18 in a row is important, for the same reason Secretariat's Belmont is important.

As for the "beating the boys" nonsense, it is tiring, outdated, sexist, and irrelevant. Why not rave about Goldikova, or Ouija Board, or Vodka, or Zarkova -- all current or recent "girls" who "beat boys." Around the world fillies and colts compete regularly against each other, and this is not a big deal.

I personally don't care who gets HOY title. Zenyatta is Horse of the Decade as far as I'm concerned, no matter what she does or doesn't do next. I only wish I had a fraction of what her first foal will be worth when it hits the ground!

Hi Duncan,
I'm not knocking Z....the trouble is that her connections think it's OK to stay in California and not leave so she can prove she is the best. I said it before, there is a stigma attached to the whole synthetic surface thing.....putting that down in California only distanced the east and west coast further. It was the worst thing they could have done....it also limits who will and will not ship to run in the BC. Z ran an incredible race in last years BC....but she beat a turf horse, who keeps getting himself beat this year.....if she can win this years BC on the dirt, she will of course be HOY and will gain all the accolades she should have recieved all ready....if it weren't for her connections. TJ

[dublino]

if she can win this years BC on the dirt, she will of course be HOY and will gain all the accolades she should have recieved all ready....if it weren't for her connections. TJ

Jeepers give the Moss's a brake, its where they live, California.
I am sure if they lived in Ny Big Z would be running at Saratoga more often than not.

Can't blame a guy for running at his local track?

[DuncanPatch]

You do have a piont about the stigma against synthetics, TJ -- and I too wished Z had been sent to run in something at Belmont, although it doesn't make good sense to do that if you're headed for Churchill shortly thereafter. I've been opposed to synthetics since they were invented -- thinking that 250 million years of horses running on dirt seemed to be working well for them. Still: a great horse runs manages to run well (if not always win) on all surfaces, which is one reason why Secretariat was so splendid -- winning on dirt and grass, wet and dry, and if there had been synthetics, I have no doubt he would have won there too, even if he didn't like it. But now that we have synthetics (thank God, not long at Santa Anita!), why privilege dirt racers over synthetic ones? The quality of the field should count more than the surfaces they run on.

However, I also think Rachel's connections have brought a stigma on themselves by hyping a "showdown" race against Z that they never really wanted to happen, and sure enough, it hasn't, and won't. I've wondered if the intent was to put the onus on Z to get her to come east, although they had every opportunity to send Rachel west for the Clement Hirsch or the Lady's Secret. (I was appalled at the classlessness of their not even mentioning Hal Wiggins on Eclipse Award night.) They have done nothing to indicate they really want a match with Zenyatta, I am not convinced Asmussen has done right by her, and I would not be at all surprised if at the last minute she doesn't run in the Ladies Classic. I look for her to be retired in mid-October. I'm a huge admirer of Rachel's, and have been sorry she wasn't better managed and better trained by her currect connections. She deserved the best and didn't get it, in my opinion. Still, she gave us a terrific year last year, and that will stand in her honor for a long time.

Princess Rachel A and Queen Zenyatta. Been a great year for racing!

[TJ]

if she can win this years BC on the dirt, she will of course be HOY and will gain all the accolades she should have recieved all ready....if it weren't for her connections. TJ

Jeepers give the Moss's a brake, its where they live, California.
I am sure if they lived in Ny Big Z would be running at Saratoga more often than not.

Can't blame a guy for running at his local track?

Hi Dub,
No can do, I blame them....a horse like Zenyatta deserves it. Baffert lives in California too....he managed Lookin At Lucky properly and stands a big chance to win the 3YO colt Championship. Blind Luck as well.....these are two very nice horses....but they aren't Zenyatta. Zenyatta is at a disadvantage because she stayed home...it's the only reason why she didn't win HOY last year. TJ

[TJ]

You do have a piont about the stigma against synthetics, TJ -- and I too wished Z had been sent to run in something at Belmont, although it doesn't make good sense to do that if you're headed for Churchill shortly thereafter. I've been opposed to synthetics since they were invented -- thinking that 250 million years of horses running on dirt seemed to be working well for them. Still: a great horse runs manages to run well (if not always win) on all surfaces, which is one reason why Secretariat was so splendid -- winning on dirt and grass, wet and dry, and if there had been synthetics, I have no doubt he would have won there too, even if he didn't like it. But now that we have synthetics (thank God, not long at Santa Anita!), why privilege dirt racers over synthetic ones? The quality of the field should count more than the surfaces they run on.

However, I also think Rachel's connections have brought a stigma on themselves by hyping a "showdown" race against Z that they never really wanted to happen, and sure enough, it hasn't, and won't. I've wondered if the intent was to put the onus on Z to get her to come east, although they had every opportunity to send Rachel west for the Clement Hirsch or the Lady's Secret. (I was appalled at the classlessness of their not even mentioning Hal Wiggins on Eclipse Award night.) They have done nothing to indicate they really want a match with Zenyatta, I am not convinced Asmussen has done right by her, and I would not be at all surprised if at the last minute she doesn't run in the Ladies Classic. I look for her to be retired in mid-October. I'm a huge admirer of Rachel's, and have been sorry she wasn't better managed and better trained by her currect connections. She deserved the best and didn't get it, in my opinion. Still, she gave us a terrific year last year, and that will stand in her honor for a long time.

Princess Rachel A and Queen Zenyatta. Been a great year for racing!

Hi Duncan,
Synthetic tracks have been the ruination of west and east coast racing harmony. How they could mandate a track surface be used without ever being used before....I don't know. You know there was a quietly announced fubar with Zenyatta....she was almost scratched the morning of her last win. The track was separating and the wax was getting balled up under the horses hooves. The superintendent promised he'd have it fixed and he did and Z ran and of course won.
The time table would be fine for Z to run in the Beldame, train at Belmont then go to CD for the BC. There is a 5 week span between races. The problem is the trainer won't leave his base and I'd have to think it's the reason why Z is in this spot. If RA shows for the Beldame...and I'd be willing to bet she will, all Z has to do is beat last years HOY. Then 5 weeks later win the BC and the lights are out.....she proves to the world she is one of the greatest that ever lived......stigma gone! I'm sorry, but when you have a horse as good as this....you sometimes have to make sacrifices for your horse in order to prove that she is the best. It's maybe a 6-7 week sojourn to do this for Zenyatta. I'm sure he has someone that works for him that he's comfortable with to take care of her, or run his California shed row....he needs to bite the bullet and do this for Zenyatta. This is a do or die situation....Z's going to retire after this, give her the opportunity she deserves to win her last two on the dirt against the best GR I horses that are around. Silence the doubter's....can't her trainer do that for her after all she's done for him?? I don't like the fact she will have to come here over a strange dirt race track and have to win in order to become HOY. It's like the dirt horses that showed up to run in the BC last season.....you couldn't find any of them. TJ

[DuncanPatch]

Can't argue with your well-taken points, TJ. I think Belmont would actually be favorable to Zenyatta, given her size and long stride. I hadn't thought through the time-line, and you are right about her deserving a chance at something better than the Lady's Secret is likely to offer. I have little doubt that she would take down Rachel, but it would cement her greatness, and the BC Classic would just be icing on her cake.

Well. I just hope she continues through whatever they've planned for her in good health and that she retires with proper fanfare. I don't expect to see another like her for decades.

[TJ]

Can't argue with your well-taken points, TJ. I think Belmont would actually be favorable to Zenyatta, given her size and long stride. I hadn't thought through the time-line, and you are right about her deserving a chance at something better than the Lady's Secret is likely to offer. I have little doubt that she would take down Rachel, but it would cement her greatness, and the BC Classic would just be icing on her cake.

Well. I just hope she continues through whatever they've planned for her in good health and that she retires with proper fanfare. I don't expect to see another like her for decades.

Hi Duncan,
I would have to think Belmont would be OK for her as well. At this time Rachel is very vulnerable and there will be a number of other nice distaffer's in the race as well....all legitimate. The time will be fast and Z could possibly stop the clock in record time when you consider Rachel ran the 1 1/8th of the Mother Goose last season going 44.3, 1:08.4, 1:33.3, 1:46.1. The 1 1/8th mile record is held by Secretariat in 1:45.2......the record standing since 1973! That would be an extra bonus for Z's resume.
I too hope only the best for her.....just wish she would be allowed to run in the Beldame. TJ

[Terlingua]

Sorry to interrupt the discussion, but I just located this interesting"tidbit" on the internet, comparing Secretariat and Zenyatta. Address: http://somaxsports.com/blog/page/2/
I thought it was interesting!

[jagger]

Very interesting article AND web site!!!

[Matchemforever]

Secretariat is bookin' in his photo.

Zenyatta looks like it might be the end of the race, Smith is up in his irons, not urging her.

Just wonder if you got the same leg placement in a photo, with Smith really urging her as Secretariat's rider seems to be, if Zenyatta's stride angle wouldn't actually be bigger?

[NorthStar]

Rachel Alexandra has proven those who gave her Eclipse votes terribly wrong...

Just goes to show how political and nonsensical the HOY voting is, IMO.
Not only did she get robbed of HOY, she has been the best thing for racing in a long, long time. For that alone, she deserves a special award. So does John Sherriffs!