Question’s for mare owners?
What are the main reasons there are fewer mares being bred in Texas? How can it be fixed?
1. Race dates / opportunities?
2. Lack of / fewer quality stallions currently in Texas? Although I still feel we compete with La/ Ok very well in that regards; but La. keeps adding more firepower and their stallions are earning more with higher purses.
3. Owner’s awards?
4. Economy?
5. Better opportunities in neighboring states?
6. Just got tired of writing checks for feed, vets, and board with little potential return on your investment so we sold.
7. Mares I bought were not nearly as good as I thought they were in the sales barn.
8. Three years to see if I made the right decision with the mare / stud selection.
9. My family thought I was crazy to keep pouring $$$$ into this.
10. What…. You mean they don’t actually have a foal every year and the bills still need to be paid.
Ok a little humor today, but I do wish all those with mares / stallions in Texas the best of Luck. It is a very hard business to make work IMO; especially on a small scale.
Texas Thoroughbred Forum
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tinners way
- Allowance Winner
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Onthemark, you hit every major point, except, and this is my feeble attempt at humor, for those of us who have stayed to gut it out, we are doing the same thing we accuse (and rightly so) of those supporting the slots or nothing agenda. Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Insanity.
Ok, what needs to change. Breedback and rebalancing of the ATB Awards. Change didn't work, needs to be readdressed. Guess what, there are more ways to change than simply going back to where we were, yet when ideas have been brought forth, no stomach for change. How about
1) Close the breedback rule. Totally verifiable. Texas Stallion and Texas Mare. Truly Texas Bred.
2) Go back to every other year. Totally verifiable. Worked for a long time.
3) Create a reciprocal rule with other states. If it is good enough for Kentucky or Louisiana or New Mexico, it is good enough for Texas, and vice versa.
4) Allow open breedback as we have, but require 10% of the published stud fee from out of state covers to be part of the registration.
5) Redefine a Texas bred. Texas Stallion and Texas based mare, and it makes no difference where the foal arrives. Would enable dual registry for many foals.
Not sure any of those are the best answer, but at least they are recommendations. The TTA (which means it members- you and me.) has lost enormous amounts of registration dollars since the debacle of the change. And of course any change in the breedback rule has to be accompanied by a rebalance of the ATB awards. That will at least incentivize mare owners to think about staying, and possibly some more of us insane folks to continue to invest in stallions.
Concerning the sales. Are the sales even working for Fasig Tipton? Again, structure created by the TTA to produce better results. Just hasn't happened.
Race Dates. Hopefully when this gets into full swing again for 2012 those supporting the horsemen will realize we need opportunity, not someplace to park conditioned horses for 8-10 weeks while the wanna be slot parlors, whoops, race tracks, poor mouth the horsemen into believing they have no money. Guess what, run a race track folks. Put incentive plans in for your executives to put a profitable product on the track, not lobby for slots in 2013. Support real initiatives that will not give us the greatest purses in the world- but continually improving purses. Can any track executive utter ADW?
For 8 years it has been the same crap. No changes, same agenda, continual reduction in opportunity, and no openness to readdress these issues. But......you have to keep fighting.
Ok, what needs to change. Breedback and rebalancing of the ATB Awards. Change didn't work, needs to be readdressed. Guess what, there are more ways to change than simply going back to where we were, yet when ideas have been brought forth, no stomach for change. How about
1) Close the breedback rule. Totally verifiable. Texas Stallion and Texas Mare. Truly Texas Bred.
2) Go back to every other year. Totally verifiable. Worked for a long time.
3) Create a reciprocal rule with other states. If it is good enough for Kentucky or Louisiana or New Mexico, it is good enough for Texas, and vice versa.
4) Allow open breedback as we have, but require 10% of the published stud fee from out of state covers to be part of the registration.
5) Redefine a Texas bred. Texas Stallion and Texas based mare, and it makes no difference where the foal arrives. Would enable dual registry for many foals.
Not sure any of those are the best answer, but at least they are recommendations. The TTA (which means it members- you and me.) has lost enormous amounts of registration dollars since the debacle of the change. And of course any change in the breedback rule has to be accompanied by a rebalance of the ATB awards. That will at least incentivize mare owners to think about staying, and possibly some more of us insane folks to continue to invest in stallions.
Concerning the sales. Are the sales even working for Fasig Tipton? Again, structure created by the TTA to produce better results. Just hasn't happened.
Race Dates. Hopefully when this gets into full swing again for 2012 those supporting the horsemen will realize we need opportunity, not someplace to park conditioned horses for 8-10 weeks while the wanna be slot parlors, whoops, race tracks, poor mouth the horsemen into believing they have no money. Guess what, run a race track folks. Put incentive plans in for your executives to put a profitable product on the track, not lobby for slots in 2013. Support real initiatives that will not give us the greatest purses in the world- but continually improving purses. Can any track executive utter ADW?
For 8 years it has been the same crap. No changes, same agenda, continual reduction in opportunity, and no openness to readdress these issues. But......you have to keep fighting.
Any news re. the TTA elections??????? How long can it take to count votes and publish results? The Dec. F/T sale....as a consignor, you can't have anything in foal to or by a TX stallion ( other than V.E.) regardless of page, race record or anything else. Such a shame as I think TX has some very well-bred stallions that deserve a chance. Captain Countdown, Uncle Abbie and the Valour Farm stallions are a few that jump to mind. These stallions have produced runners but the current situation is dire and I don't blame buyers for not being willing to gamble on these horses. One thing I did notice at the recent sale was the total absence of anyone looking to pinhook weanlings to yearlings....always has been a strong market share (50%). So we are planning on breeding only 1 or 2 mares in 2011 and we are not foaling anything in TX. Not even our ET QH foals. OK, LA and AR are the best bet for Southwest breeders at this time IMO.
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keyranch
- Allowance Winner
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The votes have been counted and you will not see much of any change in the board of the TTA. Name recognition seams to be the #1 reason for getting votes. It is not unexpected and basically we do not see any changes in the behavior of the TTA until changes at the top occur.
The difference now and a year ago, every mistake will become public and they will become transparent to their membership and boardmembers! It is amazing to me how hard they hold on to their slots or nothing agenda, even as their membership continues to drop.
I received the THBPA ballots and see that Jan Haynes is running against Jerry Durant for owner representative. Both of these people initially supported the 60 day meet at Lone Star as far as I can tell. Even though there were several points of contention with Haynes over the dates process. She is the one that made the stand and informed SHRP that their ability to simulcast would be lost if they did not run a meet. At the time it was a bold stance and was very important to the process. I think the board is to dependent on the information provided by their director and that has led to some misinformed stands.
I also contend that the board members of both the THBPA and the TTA were never fully informed of what was going on during the race dates process and debate. The was several folks not happy with me over the secret meetings, I kept bringing them up trying to point out the coordination between the associations and tracks to reduce the race days and opportunity for the Texas horsemen. Looking back and looking at the transcripts, it is apparent that the THBPA and the QHHBPA did not know there were meetings before they were ever brought in. So, to them there were no secret meetings.
The TTA was the instigator of the meetings and in all the racing commission reviews of the process they never admitted to attending. There were TTA board members in attendance in some, but overall it was the director that was orchestrating the scenario and we must assume with the full knowledge of the TTA president and executive committee. The problem for the TTA's involvement is that their very existence is to improve the opportunity for Texas horsemen and they have basically a covenant with their membership and the TRC and state to do exactly that. Instead they promoted the loss of racing opportunity for the horsemen and the state in order to create a crisis for political purposes. To crash the racing so that the legislators would step in and support the only option offered to them, slots or nothing, to save the industry!
This was a failure on the part of the board of the TTA to allow this to happen and even more so to not act on each and every individual involved in this from staff to board members. This is also a failure of the TRC to impose their authority over the TTA by not removing the administration of the breeders fund to an organization that blatantly broke its agreement.
Did all the board members know what was going on at the time, the answer is no! They should know it now and they should have reacted to the situation and taken action! You folks are on the board for a reason and the simple threat or liability these folks have put the association in should determine action on your part. How far do we have to go to get you folks to investigate and change, this is run like a mini-dictatorship with a handful of folks making all the decisions and using the whole board for cover so they are not responsible for the mistakes!
We have lost a decade over the inept leadership of the TTA and we do not intend to stand by and lose another decade!
The difference now and a year ago, every mistake will become public and they will become transparent to their membership and boardmembers! It is amazing to me how hard they hold on to their slots or nothing agenda, even as their membership continues to drop.
I received the THBPA ballots and see that Jan Haynes is running against Jerry Durant for owner representative. Both of these people initially supported the 60 day meet at Lone Star as far as I can tell. Even though there were several points of contention with Haynes over the dates process. She is the one that made the stand and informed SHRP that their ability to simulcast would be lost if they did not run a meet. At the time it was a bold stance and was very important to the process. I think the board is to dependent on the information provided by their director and that has led to some misinformed stands.
I also contend that the board members of both the THBPA and the TTA were never fully informed of what was going on during the race dates process and debate. The was several folks not happy with me over the secret meetings, I kept bringing them up trying to point out the coordination between the associations and tracks to reduce the race days and opportunity for the Texas horsemen. Looking back and looking at the transcripts, it is apparent that the THBPA and the QHHBPA did not know there were meetings before they were ever brought in. So, to them there were no secret meetings.
The TTA was the instigator of the meetings and in all the racing commission reviews of the process they never admitted to attending. There were TTA board members in attendance in some, but overall it was the director that was orchestrating the scenario and we must assume with the full knowledge of the TTA president and executive committee. The problem for the TTA's involvement is that their very existence is to improve the opportunity for Texas horsemen and they have basically a covenant with their membership and the TRC and state to do exactly that. Instead they promoted the loss of racing opportunity for the horsemen and the state in order to create a crisis for political purposes. To crash the racing so that the legislators would step in and support the only option offered to them, slots or nothing, to save the industry!
This was a failure on the part of the board of the TTA to allow this to happen and even more so to not act on each and every individual involved in this from staff to board members. This is also a failure of the TRC to impose their authority over the TTA by not removing the administration of the breeders fund to an organization that blatantly broke its agreement.
Did all the board members know what was going on at the time, the answer is no! They should know it now and they should have reacted to the situation and taken action! You folks are on the board for a reason and the simple threat or liability these folks have put the association in should determine action on your part. How far do we have to go to get you folks to investigate and change, this is run like a mini-dictatorship with a handful of folks making all the decisions and using the whole board for cover so they are not responsible for the mistakes!
We have lost a decade over the inept leadership of the TTA and we do not intend to stand by and lose another decade!
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keyranch
- Allowance Winner
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It does not take long for an error to be pointed out. Be sure and read the Thoroughbred HBPA ballot, which I did not. The instructions are: You may vote for up to Three candidates Total(Two owners and 1 trainer). If you vote for more than that number, your ballot will Not be counted.
There are two owners listed-Jan Haynes and Jerry Durrant and Two trainers listed Bret Calhoun and Charles Wright.
The owners are not running against each other they are running unopposed. So you have to vote for both of them in order to vote for one trainer.
My second error was the confusion over the Jerry Durant and brother Tom Durant. I do not know if Jerry Durant was supportive of the reduction of race dates to sixty days. If you know him or where he stood, let us know where he stands on the issues. Even though he is unopposed, there should be something out there to look at.
Jan Haynes had the best quote of all." There are several different methods of increasing purse revenue, which include ADW, instant racing machines, and an expanded fair circuit, but without a doubt, legalizing slot machines at Texas tracks would have the largest impact on our horsemen." This is absolutely a correct statement if it was a pick one situation. It is not, ADW's, exchange betting, with Instant Race Machines would increase the purses more than just slots.
Instead of incremental purse increases to keep everyone in the game, the slots or nothing crowd has had the approach that any alternative to slots will prevent the passage of slots. When you swing for the fenses you strike out a lot and many of us would take a few singles until the pitch is right for the home run. It is unfortunate that the people that have made these decisions for us do not have enough skin in the game to make it a priority to get something done now!
There are two owners listed-Jan Haynes and Jerry Durrant and Two trainers listed Bret Calhoun and Charles Wright.
The owners are not running against each other they are running unopposed. So you have to vote for both of them in order to vote for one trainer.
My second error was the confusion over the Jerry Durant and brother Tom Durant. I do not know if Jerry Durant was supportive of the reduction of race dates to sixty days. If you know him or where he stood, let us know where he stands on the issues. Even though he is unopposed, there should be something out there to look at.
Jan Haynes had the best quote of all." There are several different methods of increasing purse revenue, which include ADW, instant racing machines, and an expanded fair circuit, but without a doubt, legalizing slot machines at Texas tracks would have the largest impact on our horsemen." This is absolutely a correct statement if it was a pick one situation. It is not, ADW's, exchange betting, with Instant Race Machines would increase the purses more than just slots.
Instead of incremental purse increases to keep everyone in the game, the slots or nothing crowd has had the approach that any alternative to slots will prevent the passage of slots. When you swing for the fenses you strike out a lot and many of us would take a few singles until the pitch is right for the home run. It is unfortunate that the people that have made these decisions for us do not have enough skin in the game to make it a priority to get something done now!
I hope that everyone had a good Christmas. I did since I got to come home from the hospital where I had been since last Sunday. There is no place like home.
A few belated comments on the TTA election. I was there for the vote count on Thursday. The ballots are all checked and double checked. Every effort is made to try to accept the clear intentions of those who voted. More people voted this year, but more people also messed up their ballots. The directions seem to be clear, eg. you must vote for five at large candidates. There were several vacated votes because people only voted for one or two candidates. We did accept ballots on the campaign literature rather on the actual ballot - if they were clear and had the correct number of votes.
The outcome was largely one of returning the incumbents. That is a typical result for these types of elections. It takes time for people to get to know new names. My best advice for those seeking change would be to make an effort over the new year to get to know your fellow horsemen. Networking is key to any job seeking. Try to find a way to communicate to the membership about your goals and your qualifications.
All the best to everyone for the New Year. I think it can be a good one.
Bedouwia
A few belated comments on the TTA election. I was there for the vote count on Thursday. The ballots are all checked and double checked. Every effort is made to try to accept the clear intentions of those who voted. More people voted this year, but more people also messed up their ballots. The directions seem to be clear, eg. you must vote for five at large candidates. There were several vacated votes because people only voted for one or two candidates. We did accept ballots on the campaign literature rather on the actual ballot - if they were clear and had the correct number of votes.
The outcome was largely one of returning the incumbents. That is a typical result for these types of elections. It takes time for people to get to know new names. My best advice for those seeking change would be to make an effort over the new year to get to know your fellow horsemen. Networking is key to any job seeking. Try to find a way to communicate to the membership about your goals and your qualifications.
All the best to everyone for the New Year. I think it can be a good one.
Bedouwia
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keyranch
- Allowance Winner
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Our friend Mr. West from the Ft Worth Star telegram is at it again. Whoever pulls his strings has him hitting all of Hoopers talking points and putting a target on all of the TTA's friends including the misdirected horsemen.
1)Race dates meetings were to long
2)The acceptance of Globals bid is taking to long
3)He addressed the legislators as the talaban legislators
You have to read it to appreciate it, there are links on the FB page. Again the folks that are responsible to creating this crisis are not even mentioned. The Tracks, lobbyists, and associations that started with the non secret meetings to organize a collapse to improve their political chances for the passage of slots. After ten years of the same routine, just how stupid do you think the legislators really are Mr. West?
Their propaganda has been effective in the past, but folks do not buy this crap anymore. While Texas horsemen had to leave the state to make a living the tracks, lobbyists, and associations are still here trying to figure out how to make the crisis even worse! The only way to prevent this stuff from happening is to share the truth and let the chips fall where they may.
The attempt to denegrade the TRC and the mushrooms early and often shows that they are concerned with being exposed. Without the TRC you would be running at only 60days in 2011, period the end! Look at where the critisism of the TRC is coming from. Dave Hooper and the other minions of the tracks, Gary West. I can not make it more simple or clear for the folks, you have to represent yourselves and self interests to your legislators. The TTA, HBPA, TED, and Tracks have proven time and again that you the horsemen are only pawns for their self interest. It is in the contracts of Mr Brown, Mr. Shubeck, and we assume Ms. Young to reap millions of dollars personally with the passage of VLT's at the ractracks. We do not know what has been promised to the multitude of others that have sold us out, but there are enough rumors to warrant an investigation from the state.
I would suggest that next time you folks want to use the media to water the mushrooms and the TRC, it is not in your best interest to drag us in! We have left you folks alone to your own devices and quietly been going about our bussiness, you need to sit down and shut up. You have way to many secrets to expose, and I would like to see Mr. West leave us out of his articles from now on!
1)Race dates meetings were to long
2)The acceptance of Globals bid is taking to long
3)He addressed the legislators as the talaban legislators
You have to read it to appreciate it, there are links on the FB page. Again the folks that are responsible to creating this crisis are not even mentioned. The Tracks, lobbyists, and associations that started with the non secret meetings to organize a collapse to improve their political chances for the passage of slots. After ten years of the same routine, just how stupid do you think the legislators really are Mr. West?
Their propaganda has been effective in the past, but folks do not buy this crap anymore. While Texas horsemen had to leave the state to make a living the tracks, lobbyists, and associations are still here trying to figure out how to make the crisis even worse! The only way to prevent this stuff from happening is to share the truth and let the chips fall where they may.
The attempt to denegrade the TRC and the mushrooms early and often shows that they are concerned with being exposed. Without the TRC you would be running at only 60days in 2011, period the end! Look at where the critisism of the TRC is coming from. Dave Hooper and the other minions of the tracks, Gary West. I can not make it more simple or clear for the folks, you have to represent yourselves and self interests to your legislators. The TTA, HBPA, TED, and Tracks have proven time and again that you the horsemen are only pawns for their self interest. It is in the contracts of Mr Brown, Mr. Shubeck, and we assume Ms. Young to reap millions of dollars personally with the passage of VLT's at the ractracks. We do not know what has been promised to the multitude of others that have sold us out, but there are enough rumors to warrant an investigation from the state.
I would suggest that next time you folks want to use the media to water the mushrooms and the TRC, it is not in your best interest to drag us in! We have left you folks alone to your own devices and quietly been going about our bussiness, you need to sit down and shut up. You have way to many secrets to expose, and I would like to see Mr. West leave us out of his articles from now on!
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jrgators
- Starters Handicap
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- Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 5:26 pm
- Location: Lockhart, Texas
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Good evening, and Happy New Year to everyone!
As for the statement by Joe, I would have to add one thing....I'm not a "chowder head!"
Mr. West if he had any decency would be ashamed of his statements, and his undying devotion to the slots agenda.
I hope Mr. West is effective in getting legislature to listen to him, and I also hope that we get VLT's. I don't think it will happen, but I do hope so.
I have to share also that I now have a receipt for the infamous $14.00 Bill that I had with the THP. So Queen, you guys are paid in full from Junior Gators Racing Stable, and I have proof. So you'll have to come up with something different to say about Theo Scales that's negative.
Here's the one point I'd like to make about the big debt I had with the THP, I had to call several times to get an explination of the charge. Now, these great people criticized me for it, but never was my request honored for a bill. Never was I made aware after several attempts this past summer what the bill was related to! You guys are special, you put me down in public about a bill from 2007, but to this date you have NEVER sent me anything to state that I owed this and why. I only know that it's due to a jock mount because I went to the office, got the answer, and paid the dang money.
I love you guys, and I hope that you will do atleast somewhat better with the legisatures and communicating with them, than with me, or our VLT dreams are DOA.
Theophilus Scales, Jr.
As for the statement by Joe, I would have to add one thing....I'm not a "chowder head!"
Mr. West if he had any decency would be ashamed of his statements, and his undying devotion to the slots agenda.
I hope Mr. West is effective in getting legislature to listen to him, and I also hope that we get VLT's. I don't think it will happen, but I do hope so.
I have to share also that I now have a receipt for the infamous $14.00 Bill that I had with the THP. So Queen, you guys are paid in full from Junior Gators Racing Stable, and I have proof. So you'll have to come up with something different to say about Theo Scales that's negative.
Here's the one point I'd like to make about the big debt I had with the THP, I had to call several times to get an explination of the charge. Now, these great people criticized me for it, but never was my request honored for a bill. Never was I made aware after several attempts this past summer what the bill was related to! You guys are special, you put me down in public about a bill from 2007, but to this date you have NEVER sent me anything to state that I owed this and why. I only know that it's due to a jock mount because I went to the office, got the answer, and paid the dang money.
I love you guys, and I hope that you will do atleast somewhat better with the legisatures and communicating with them, than with me, or our VLT dreams are DOA.
Theophilus Scales, Jr.
A little history
Seller Rating (Link)
Texas: State-Bred Fund Cuts, Changes in Racing Dates | BloodHorse ...
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Loving God, Loving People and Serving = Peace and Happiness
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Try it you will like it.
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lazyfranch
- Maiden Special Weight
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- Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 8:00 am
- Location: Austin TX area
LOPE Fundraising Show for 2011 has been set. We have changed to a fall show, and it is scheduled for September 17th at the Travis County Expo Center in Austin.
We will as always be asking for silent auction donations (and posting the link to the silent auction here when it is open). Sponsors for classes and the arena as well.
Thanks for everything that you do for Texas Racing!
We will as always be asking for silent auction donations (and posting the link to the silent auction here when it is open). Sponsors for classes and the arena as well.
Thanks for everything that you do for Texas Racing!
Texas Thoroughbred HBPA
Hello All,
As many of you know I have accepted a nomination as a candidate of the Board of Directors of the TTHBPA. This is the only contested race. My opponent, Mr. Calhoun, is an excellent trainer with a bright future. However, he is also a very busy man.
I have met and listened to many of you as I walked the barns of Lone Star, Retama, and Remington. I share the frustrations you have voiced over the representation and direction of the TTHBPA and I certainly appreciate your kind words supporting my candidacy.
As voters (licensed Texas trainers and owners) you have a clear choice between maintaining the status quo or making a change. The final deadline for casting ballots that have any hope of being counted is fast approaching. They must be in the TTHBPA office by Friday. If you have not yet voted I would appreciate your support.
Respectfully,
Chuck Wright
As many of you know I have accepted a nomination as a candidate of the Board of Directors of the TTHBPA. This is the only contested race. My opponent, Mr. Calhoun, is an excellent trainer with a bright future. However, he is also a very busy man.
I have met and listened to many of you as I walked the barns of Lone Star, Retama, and Remington. I share the frustrations you have voiced over the representation and direction of the TTHBPA and I certainly appreciate your kind words supporting my candidacy.
As voters (licensed Texas trainers and owners) you have a clear choice between maintaining the status quo or making a change. The final deadline for casting ballots that have any hope of being counted is fast approaching. They must be in the TTHBPA office by Friday. If you have not yet voted I would appreciate your support.
Respectfully,
Chuck Wright
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keyranch
- Allowance Winner
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This is a very important decision for the HBPA members. Chuck has been at the TRC meetings, presenting race dates schedules, and crunching numbers for various proposals. His background at solving bussiness problems and his clear thinking in complicated situations would make him as asset to the horsemen in the debates to come.
We need someone who will be there at the hearings and can negotiate in the best interest of the horsemen. Dealing with the racetracks and is not the same, they are national and multinational corporations that have their hired guns to protect their interests. We have to get away from making it a popularity contest and get serious about putting the most qualified person to represent the horsemen. I would put my horse in the hands of Bret anytime without reservation, and I would put the future of Texas racing in the hands of Chuck without reservation!
Your vote can make a difference! Vote Charles Wright!
We need someone who will be there at the hearings and can negotiate in the best interest of the horsemen. Dealing with the racetracks and is not the same, they are national and multinational corporations that have their hired guns to protect their interests. We have to get away from making it a popularity contest and get serious about putting the most qualified person to represent the horsemen. I would put my horse in the hands of Bret anytime without reservation, and I would put the future of Texas racing in the hands of Chuck without reservation!
Your vote can make a difference! Vote Charles Wright!