I was looking at the Thoroughbred Times sire list (2nd crop) and out of the 100 sires listed, 19 are by Storm Cat. Does it not seem that any Storm Cat at son is going to cover mares, no matter if he was good or not? They are ranked as follows:
Giants Causeway (5th)
High Yield (11th)
Bernstein (13th)
Catienus (17th)
Tiger Ridge (22)
Cat Thief (23)
Lion Hearted (24)
Storm and a Half (34)
Magic Cat (35)
Aljabr (57)
Karens Cat (62)
Adcat (65)
Macavity (72)
Malibu Wesley (80)
Maghnatis (83)
Star Programmer (85)
Gen Stormin'norman (87)
Wind Whhipper (89)
True Confidence (100)
What conclusions can be drawn from this? Besides the fact that nearly 1/5 of all the stallions on this list are by Storm Cat, and half of this list are in the lower 50% of this list, does it seem that we could be heading in the direction of a dead end bloodline wise? I think its only a matter of time, if it hasnt happened already, that linebreeding to Storm Cat will be seen, which really horrifies me, considering all the problems consistant with Storm Cat offspring.
On a different note, there are 3 sons of Saint Ballado on the list. They are ranked as follows:
Yankee Victor (9th)
Sweetsouthernsaint (15th)
Straight Man (16th)
Storm Cat ad nauseum
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Totally agree. The world has gone mad in its Storm Cat craze. Of course, this is nothing new in the horse breeding business----sons of the leading sires have always piggybacked on their sire's name. From *Sir Gallahad III to Hyperion to Bull Lea to *Nasrullah to Bold Ruler to Raise a Native to Northern Dancer to Mr. Prospector to Storm Cat, there have been thousands of sons of the BIG names which were patronized largely due to their sire's influence. Only a handful of these thousands have succeeded, yet each new generation of breeders keeps battling history.
But as you point out, Storm Cat offspring's propensity towards unsoundness and poor dispositions doesn't bode very well for future generations. Our breed needs all the durability it can find, more now than ever.
But as you point out, Storm Cat offspring's propensity towards unsoundness and poor dispositions doesn't bode very well for future generations. Our breed needs all the durability it can find, more now than ever.
Michael, I think the major difference between the Storm Cat sons we see now, and the sons of major stallions in the past, is that they are breeding such huge books of mares. I have to wonder if there isnt a disproportionate amount of foals by Storm Cat sons in the breed, different from, say Northern Dancers sons or Bold Rulers sons in their time frames.
hi halo ... hello Michael,
halo you wrote..."I was looking at the Thoroughbred Times sire list (2nd crop) and out of the 100 sires listed, 19 are by Storm Cat..."...
...and you indicated "They are ranked as follows"...and you asked "What conclusions can be drawn from this?"
Giants Causeway (5th)
High Yield (11th)
Bernstein (13th)
Catienus (17th)
Tiger Ridge (22)
Cat Thief (23)
Lion Hearted (24)
Storm and a Half (34)
Magic Cat (35)
Aljabr (57)
Karens Cat (62)
Adcat (65)
Macavity (72)
Malibu Wesley (80)
Maghnatis (83)
Star Programmer (85)
Gen Stormin'norman (87)
Wind Whhipper (89)
True Confidence (100)
One conclusion...Storm Cat and his sons are quite popular...
...another conclusion...with the many many many many opportunities that Storm Cat sons have had (and continue to have) it's amazing that so many of his sons are supported in the fashion that they seem to be when you consider their limited accomplishments (All Things Considered).
That's not to say that ultimately Storm Cat may not have a couple of good ones but (All Things Considered) I suggest he is NOT an important sire of sires...at least not yet...and based on his volume of opportunities...I don't expect that all of a sudden things are going to change.
Michael you wrote "And I'd bet a high proportion of the mares bred to these horses are from the Mr. Prospector line! More unsoundness, all in the name of fashion and early speed."
Michael...I suggest that comparing Storm Cat to Mr Prospector might be considered sacrilegious. Mr Prospector was GREAT, I repeat GREAT !!! Fillies...colts...turf...dirt...long...short...sire-of-sires...broodmare sire-of-sires etc etc etc.
Storm Cat will NEVER, I repeat NEVER have the complete and quality impact on the breed that Mr Prospector had (and continues to have)...or Northern Dancer for that matter.
Best to you.
Respectfully
halo you wrote..."I was looking at the Thoroughbred Times sire list (2nd crop) and out of the 100 sires listed, 19 are by Storm Cat..."...
...and you indicated "They are ranked as follows"...and you asked "What conclusions can be drawn from this?"
Giants Causeway (5th)
High Yield (11th)
Bernstein (13th)
Catienus (17th)
Tiger Ridge (22)
Cat Thief (23)
Lion Hearted (24)
Storm and a Half (34)
Magic Cat (35)
Aljabr (57)
Karens Cat (62)
Adcat (65)
Macavity (72)
Malibu Wesley (80)
Maghnatis (83)
Star Programmer (85)
Gen Stormin'norman (87)
Wind Whhipper (89)
True Confidence (100)
One conclusion...Storm Cat and his sons are quite popular...
...another conclusion...with the many many many many opportunities that Storm Cat sons have had (and continue to have) it's amazing that so many of his sons are supported in the fashion that they seem to be when you consider their limited accomplishments (All Things Considered).
That's not to say that ultimately Storm Cat may not have a couple of good ones but (All Things Considered) I suggest he is NOT an important sire of sires...at least not yet...and based on his volume of opportunities...I don't expect that all of a sudden things are going to change.
Michael you wrote "And I'd bet a high proportion of the mares bred to these horses are from the Mr. Prospector line! More unsoundness, all in the name of fashion and early speed."
Michael...I suggest that comparing Storm Cat to Mr Prospector might be considered sacrilegious. Mr Prospector was GREAT, I repeat GREAT !!! Fillies...colts...turf...dirt...long...short...sire-of-sires...broodmare sire-of-sires etc etc etc.
Storm Cat will NEVER, I repeat NEVER have the complete and quality impact on the breed that Mr Prospector had (and continues to have)...or Northern Dancer for that matter.
Best to you.
Respectfully
FOS,
While I certainly respect and admire Mr. P for his superior achievements, I also recognize the limitations he often transmits to his kin as well. Chief among those limitations is unsoundness, no doubt inherited from his sire, Raise a Native. Mr. P. not only raced in the same style as his sire, but often sired horses in this same one dimenstional mold. In fact, I have often maintained that his most accomplised sons and grandsons at stud are those horses whose running style mimicked his own. Mr. P has also proven himself a very good transmittor of stamina, no doubt a pass through quality from his damsire, Nashua.
The point I made about the crossing of Mr. P line mares under Storm Cat stallions apparently was lost on you. I wasn't comparing these two stallions, only pointing out that because each of them is known for siring a high percent of unsound horses (defined as having small number of starts and/or early retirement), the pairing of these two lines is likely to further denigrate the toughness of the TB.
While I certainly respect and admire Mr. P for his superior achievements, I also recognize the limitations he often transmits to his kin as well. Chief among those limitations is unsoundness, no doubt inherited from his sire, Raise a Native. Mr. P. not only raced in the same style as his sire, but often sired horses in this same one dimenstional mold. In fact, I have often maintained that his most accomplised sons and grandsons at stud are those horses whose running style mimicked his own. Mr. P has also proven himself a very good transmittor of stamina, no doubt a pass through quality from his damsire, Nashua.
The point I made about the crossing of Mr. P line mares under Storm Cat stallions apparently was lost on you. I wasn't comparing these two stallions, only pointing out that because each of them is known for siring a high percent of unsound horses (defined as having small number of starts and/or early retirement), the pairing of these two lines is likely to further denigrate the toughness of the TB.
hi Michael
You wrote "I wasn't comparing these two stallions (Storm Cat and Mr Prospector), only pointing out that ... each of them is known for siring a high percent of unsound horses..."
Michael...in my book...that's a comparison.
You also wrote "Chief among those limitations is unsoundness, no doubt inherited from his sire, Raise a Native. Mr. P. not only raced in the same style as his sire, but often sired horses in this same one dimenstional mold."
Mr Prospector..."one dimensional" ? Rubbish
For starters...how about the following:
Conquistador Cielo - Belmont Stakes G1 etc - Horse of the Year at 3 in NA
Ravinella - Eng G1 and French G1 1000 guineas etc - champion filly at 2 and 3 Eng and France
Gulch - Metropolitan H G1- Wood Memorial G1 (twice) etc - champion sprinter NA
Forty Niner - Travers G1 etc - champion 2-yo North America
Rhythm - Travers G1 etc - champion 2-yo North America
Kingmambo - Poule d'Essai des Poulains G1 France, St James Palace S G1 Eng
It's In The Air - Alabama G1 - champion 2-yo North America
Golden Attraction - Matron G1 - champion 2-yo North America
Eillo - Breeders Cup Sprint - champion sprinter North America
Queena - Ballerina G1 - champion older female North America
Coup de Genie - Prix Morny G1 - champion 2-yo filly France
Machiavellian - Prix Morny G1 - champion 2-yo France
Tersa - Prix Morny G1 - champion 2yo filly France
Gold Beauty - champion sprinter
Woodman - champion 2-yo colt Ire
Afleet - Jerome H G1 - Horse of the Year at 3 in Canada
Dancethuthedawn - Go For Wand H G1 - champion 3-yo filly Canada
Proskona - champion 3-yo filly Italy
Maximilian - champion 3-yo colt Germany
Faltaat - champion older male in UAE
Seeking the Gold - Super Derby G1, Dwyer G1
Chester House - Arlington Million G1
Aldebaran - Metropolitan H G1 - champion sprinter
Miner's Mark - Jockey Club Gold Cup G1
Educated Risk - Top Flight H - G1
Mogambo - Champagne S G1
Scan - Jerome H G1
Gone West - Dwyer S G1
Fappiano - Metropolitan H G1
Hello Gorgeous - William Hill Futurity G1 Eng
Smart Strike - Philip H. Iselin H G1
Jade Hunter - Gulfstream Park H G1
Lycius - Middle Park S G1 Eng
Distant View - Sussex S G1 - champion 3-yo Eng
Classic Crown - Frizette G1
Fusaichi Pegasus - Kentucky Derby G1
Prospector's Delite - Acorn S G1
Chic Chirine - G1 winner
Miswaki - Prix de la Salamandre G1 France
Mining - Vosburgh G1
Procida - G1 winner France
Scoot - Flower Bowl H G1
Preach - Frizette G1
Fantastic Find - Hempstead H G1
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .............. etc etc etc
Best to you.
Respectfully
You wrote "I wasn't comparing these two stallions (Storm Cat and Mr Prospector), only pointing out that ... each of them is known for siring a high percent of unsound horses..."
Michael...in my book...that's a comparison.
You also wrote "Chief among those limitations is unsoundness, no doubt inherited from his sire, Raise a Native. Mr. P. not only raced in the same style as his sire, but often sired horses in this same one dimenstional mold."
Mr Prospector..."one dimensional" ? Rubbish
For starters...how about the following:
Conquistador Cielo - Belmont Stakes G1 etc - Horse of the Year at 3 in NA
Ravinella - Eng G1 and French G1 1000 guineas etc - champion filly at 2 and 3 Eng and France
Gulch - Metropolitan H G1- Wood Memorial G1 (twice) etc - champion sprinter NA
Forty Niner - Travers G1 etc - champion 2-yo North America
Rhythm - Travers G1 etc - champion 2-yo North America
Kingmambo - Poule d'Essai des Poulains G1 France, St James Palace S G1 Eng
It's In The Air - Alabama G1 - champion 2-yo North America
Golden Attraction - Matron G1 - champion 2-yo North America
Eillo - Breeders Cup Sprint - champion sprinter North America
Queena - Ballerina G1 - champion older female North America
Coup de Genie - Prix Morny G1 - champion 2-yo filly France
Machiavellian - Prix Morny G1 - champion 2-yo France
Tersa - Prix Morny G1 - champion 2yo filly France
Gold Beauty - champion sprinter
Woodman - champion 2-yo colt Ire
Afleet - Jerome H G1 - Horse of the Year at 3 in Canada
Dancethuthedawn - Go For Wand H G1 - champion 3-yo filly Canada
Proskona - champion 3-yo filly Italy
Maximilian - champion 3-yo colt Germany
Faltaat - champion older male in UAE
Seeking the Gold - Super Derby G1, Dwyer G1
Chester House - Arlington Million G1
Aldebaran - Metropolitan H G1 - champion sprinter
Miner's Mark - Jockey Club Gold Cup G1
Educated Risk - Top Flight H - G1
Mogambo - Champagne S G1
Scan - Jerome H G1
Gone West - Dwyer S G1
Fappiano - Metropolitan H G1
Hello Gorgeous - William Hill Futurity G1 Eng
Smart Strike - Philip H. Iselin H G1
Jade Hunter - Gulfstream Park H G1
Lycius - Middle Park S G1 Eng
Distant View - Sussex S G1 - champion 3-yo Eng
Classic Crown - Frizette G1
Fusaichi Pegasus - Kentucky Derby G1
Prospector's Delite - Acorn S G1
Chic Chirine - G1 winner
Miswaki - Prix de la Salamandre G1 France
Mining - Vosburgh G1
Procida - G1 winner France
Scoot - Flower Bowl H G1
Preach - Frizette G1
Fantastic Find - Hempstead H G1
etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc .............. etc etc etc
Best to you.
Respectfully
FOS, you need to check your reading comprehension again. Michael said that Mr. P. often sired horses like him self, high speed with soundness issues. He didnt said totally or exclusively. And it seems you included several on your list that would support his contention, including Mining, Gold Beauty, Machiavellian, Woodman, Maximilian, all with abbreviated careers. You could have also included the brilliant horses Cape Canaveral, Cats Career, Carson City (at least made 15 starts, but was purely one dimensional), Coup de Genie, Crafty Prospector, even Fusaichi Pegasus, with only 9 starts, Geiger Counter, Find, Gild, Great Prospector, Mineral Wells, Larrupin, I could go on and on. And sure, you've never heard of a lot of these horses. Its because they had extremely abbreviated careers, while starting out very promising.
No one is going to argue with you that Mr. Prospector was a great sire. He was, no question. But he also sired a lot of very fast very unsound horseslike himself. That can't be argued with.
No one is going to argue with you that Mr. Prospector was a great sire. He was, no question. But he also sired a lot of very fast very unsound horseslike himself. That can't be argued with.
hi halo
You wrote "Michael said that Mr. P. often sired horses like him self, high speed with soundness issues." halo...you also wrote "...(Mr Prospector) also sired a lot of very fast very unsound horseslike himself."
Respectfully halo...Michael did not say that...you did. Michael's EXACT words were "Mr. P. not only raced in the same style as his sire, but often sired horses in this same one dimenstional mold." halo...I suggest that your interpretation of Michael's comments is apparentlyy different than mine.
I submit that Mr. Prospector OFTEN delivered a serious engine to his offspring...but he had so many top ones (fillies and colts) that could win the big races (dirt or turf) not only going short but also going a mile and/or beyond...I suggest it's unfair to attempt to tag him (to any degree) as "often" a "one dimensional" sire.
My premise is that it's the very rare sires that can not only OFTEN sire brilliance and speed...but also can OFTEN couple that brilliance (and speed) with the ability to carry it going a mile and/or beyond. That's what Mr. Prospector did OFTEN...arguably more OFTEN than the competition. That's one of his great strengths that separated him from the average or the ordinary...and catapulted him into the rarest-air...at the highest level.
That being said...please understand that the reason that I listed many Mr Prospector G1 winners (if you notice I never even got into G2's or G3's) was to specifically highlight the fact that a very high percentage of the Mr P's were not only brilliant and fast (including many at age two) but also OFTEN went on to win significant races (G1's) going a mile and/or beyond...which Mr Prospector himself NEVER did.
Some examples of G1's that sons and daughters of Mr Prospector won going a mile and beyond (after their two-year-old year) are:
The Belmont...Travers...Matron...Alabama...Ballerina...Go For Wand...Super Derby...Arlington Million...Hempstead H...Jockey Club Gold Cup...Dwyer...Kentucky Derby...Phillip H. Iselin...Gulfstream Park H...Flower Bowl...Metropolitan...Wood Memorial...Poules d'Essai de Poulains... etc etc etc...all G1's !
Michael also wrote "In fact, I have often maintained that (Mr Prospector's) most accomplised sons and grandsons at stud are those horses whose running style mimicked his own."
What? Michael suggests that Mr Prospector's "most accomplished sons and grandsons at stud" "mimicked" Mr P's "running style." Although speed was OFTEN abundant among the Mr Prospectors...I suggest otherwise (and remind you that Mr Prospector NEVER won a race beyond seven furlongs).
So what about (for starters) some of Mr Prospector's most accomplished sons or grandsons at stud...for example what about Gone West (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles)...or Seeking the Gold (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles)...or Fappiano (G1 winner at a mile)...or Unbridled (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles)...or Kingmambo (three time G1 winner at a mile on the turf)...or Smart Strike (G1 winner at 1 1/16 miles)...or Elusive Quality (G3 winner at both 7f on the turf and 1 mile on the turf...and nwr 1 mile on the turf...winner on the dirt from 6f to 1 1/16 miles)...or Grand Slam (G1 winner at 1 1/16 miles)...or even the young Not for Love (sp 1 1/16 miles on the turf...winner from 6f to 1 3/16 miles)...or up-and-coming Northern Afleet (G2 winner at both 7f and 1 1/8 miles...G3 winner at 1 1/16 miles).
I'm not sure what Michael means by "most accomplished" but if it includes sons or grandsons (of Mr Prospector) that have sired champions...highweights and/or classics winners...and only those sires should be considered whose running styles do NOT mimic Mr. P's...what about including Marquetry (G1 winner on turf and dirt at 1 1/8 miles...and G1 winner at 1 1/4 miles)...or Thunder Gulch (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles and 1 1/2 miles)...or Quiet American (G1 winner at a mile)...or Distant View (G1 winner at a mile on the turf)...or Cryptoclearance (three time G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and G1 winner at 1 1/4 miles)...for starters.
Regardless of occasional differences of opinion...you might agree that conflicting viewpoints can sometimes spice-up the debate.
Best to you halo...and Michael.
Respectfully
You wrote "Michael said that Mr. P. often sired horses like him self, high speed with soundness issues." halo...you also wrote "...(Mr Prospector) also sired a lot of very fast very unsound horseslike himself."
Respectfully halo...Michael did not say that...you did. Michael's EXACT words were "Mr. P. not only raced in the same style as his sire, but often sired horses in this same one dimenstional mold." halo...I suggest that your interpretation of Michael's comments is apparentlyy different than mine.
I submit that Mr. Prospector OFTEN delivered a serious engine to his offspring...but he had so many top ones (fillies and colts) that could win the big races (dirt or turf) not only going short but also going a mile and/or beyond...I suggest it's unfair to attempt to tag him (to any degree) as "often" a "one dimensional" sire.
My premise is that it's the very rare sires that can not only OFTEN sire brilliance and speed...but also can OFTEN couple that brilliance (and speed) with the ability to carry it going a mile and/or beyond. That's what Mr. Prospector did OFTEN...arguably more OFTEN than the competition. That's one of his great strengths that separated him from the average or the ordinary...and catapulted him into the rarest-air...at the highest level.
That being said...please understand that the reason that I listed many Mr Prospector G1 winners (if you notice I never even got into G2's or G3's) was to specifically highlight the fact that a very high percentage of the Mr P's were not only brilliant and fast (including many at age two) but also OFTEN went on to win significant races (G1's) going a mile and/or beyond...which Mr Prospector himself NEVER did.
Some examples of G1's that sons and daughters of Mr Prospector won going a mile and beyond (after their two-year-old year) are:
The Belmont...Travers...Matron...Alabama...Ballerina...Go For Wand...Super Derby...Arlington Million...Hempstead H...Jockey Club Gold Cup...Dwyer...Kentucky Derby...Phillip H. Iselin...Gulfstream Park H...Flower Bowl...Metropolitan...Wood Memorial...Poules d'Essai de Poulains... etc etc etc...all G1's !
Michael also wrote "In fact, I have often maintained that (Mr Prospector's) most accomplised sons and grandsons at stud are those horses whose running style mimicked his own."
What? Michael suggests that Mr Prospector's "most accomplished sons and grandsons at stud" "mimicked" Mr P's "running style." Although speed was OFTEN abundant among the Mr Prospectors...I suggest otherwise (and remind you that Mr Prospector NEVER won a race beyond seven furlongs).
So what about (for starters) some of Mr Prospector's most accomplished sons or grandsons at stud...for example what about Gone West (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles)...or Seeking the Gold (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles)...or Fappiano (G1 winner at a mile)...or Unbridled (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles)...or Kingmambo (three time G1 winner at a mile on the turf)...or Smart Strike (G1 winner at 1 1/16 miles)...or Elusive Quality (G3 winner at both 7f on the turf and 1 mile on the turf...and nwr 1 mile on the turf...winner on the dirt from 6f to 1 1/16 miles)...or Grand Slam (G1 winner at 1 1/16 miles)...or even the young Not for Love (sp 1 1/16 miles on the turf...winner from 6f to 1 3/16 miles)...or up-and-coming Northern Afleet (G2 winner at both 7f and 1 1/8 miles...G3 winner at 1 1/16 miles).
I'm not sure what Michael means by "most accomplished" but if it includes sons or grandsons (of Mr Prospector) that have sired champions...highweights and/or classics winners...and only those sires should be considered whose running styles do NOT mimic Mr. P's...what about including Marquetry (G1 winner on turf and dirt at 1 1/8 miles...and G1 winner at 1 1/4 miles)...or Thunder Gulch (G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and 1 1/4 miles and 1 1/2 miles)...or Quiet American (G1 winner at a mile)...or Distant View (G1 winner at a mile on the turf)...or Cryptoclearance (three time G1 winner at 1 1/8 miles and G1 winner at 1 1/4 miles)...for starters.
Regardless of occasional differences of opinion...you might agree that conflicting viewpoints can sometimes spice-up the debate.
Best to you halo...and Michael.
Respectfully
I consider myself very knowledgeable about Standardbreds and a novice to TB's. I have spent the last 2 years preparing to begin a substantial TB operation. I read as much as I can and I listen to the experts. Many of you have tens of years of experience, and I read and take notes on all of your significant thoughts. I think you all know that TB's are NOT the soundest of horse. They are so freakin fragile! Mr.P's are fragile, SC's are fragile, Halo's etc, etc. Come on folks these things are bred to run crazy fast on a track that's hard? They should be called Fragilebreds lol.
Mr. P's offspring ran at a different point in racings history. Horses ran more often and hence may have appeared more sound. I do not think it's fair to compare the two era's. I would bet that Overbrook would suggest SC is a sire of very sound horses. I would bet they have documentation and studies representing there claims. I would bet the same is true with Claiborne and Seeking the Gold(my favorite). My point is simple if you want to race a horse every 7 days like clock work buy a standardbred not TB. TB's are not for the faith of heart, but dam they are the most gorgeous exciting animals on the planet.
Respectfully
fm
SC is the best (whatever that means) sire in the US. That is why he stands for 500k(tops in US) and is booked full.
Does anyone know who Storm Flag Flying was bred too. I was hoping Seeking the Gold.
Mr. P's offspring ran at a different point in racings history. Horses ran more often and hence may have appeared more sound. I do not think it's fair to compare the two era's. I would bet that Overbrook would suggest SC is a sire of very sound horses. I would bet they have documentation and studies representing there claims. I would bet the same is true with Claiborne and Seeking the Gold(my favorite). My point is simple if you want to race a horse every 7 days like clock work buy a standardbred not TB. TB's are not for the faith of heart, but dam they are the most gorgeous exciting animals on the planet.
Respectfully
fm
SC is the best (whatever that means) sire in the US. That is why he stands for 500k(tops in US) and is booked full.
Does anyone know who Storm Flag Flying was bred too. I was hoping Seeking the Gold.
I hope freedymo meant "not for the FAINT of heart"... regardless, nice sentiments. But actually, what other breed could excel in all the disciplines Thoroughbreds do, run their eyeballs off, jump the moon, dance the piaffe, work roping cattle, etc. etc. etc. with such grace, beauty, intelligence and yes, soundness?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Respectfully, these animals need 5 to 8 weeks to recover from races. The sound ones run once a month. The stakes calibur animals run 8 times a year! Look I got the bug, but my eyes are wide opened. Unless you have a 20claimer that you can run in West Virginia that is super sound its tough to make a living. It seems the whole sport revolves around breeding to make money. Its got to be tough to make a living racing. The purse stucture is ok but only if you can race at least 10 times a year. I think these animal run hurt or bothered by injury a lot more then people care to admit as do Standardbreds. It just does not seem to hold standardbreds back the way it does TB's. Maybe its me ,but it seems that if its Mr.P sons or SC fillies the good ones race 8 to 12 times a year and others don't. Do certain stallions have more or less soundness issues, I would guess so ,but it's a tough thing to prove.
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louis finochio
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freddymo wrote: Do certain stallions have more or less soundness issues, I would guess so ,but it's a tough thing to prove.
Some sires have a well-justified reputation for soundness.
The now-deceased Gainesway sire Wolf Power (SAf) threw only a few stakes winners, but he had LOTS of horses who won $100k+ the hard way, including a couple of geldings, each of whom topped out over $400k, with 135 starts between the two of them! Pleasant Tap is a strong, durable horse who puts down strong, durable horses. Cozzene has his fair share of hard knockers. His current G1 runner Star Over the Bay is at 42 starts and counting. Skip Trial down in Florida is getting about 85% starters and 60% winners FROM FOALS--so he is obviously throwing soundness.
Among horses that have a reputation for unsoundness, I think the two modern ones who take the cake are Unbridled and Seattle Slew. If you got a runner, you got a fantastic one--but for each, there was a 40% chance your foal wouldn't even make the track.