2012 Stallion fees

[Georgerz]

Does anyone care to comment on the astronomical raises of the stud fees, for the most prominent stallions, for 2012?
Bernardini to $150k, Tapit to $125k, etc.

[Crystal]

Uncle Mo seems reasonable at 35k now..LOL

[oliverstoned]

I'll try not to get as worked up as I used about the crazy fees they set on stallions......so here goes. The farms obviously realize there is no "economic downturn" for the super rich as evidenced at Keeneland. Can't feel too bad about rich people spending 35k for Mo or 20k for Point Given or any of the other foolish examples I could cite. Of course the negative to this is newcomers quickly get discouraged and leave the biz. I must say it seems much harder to find a value sire whether it be at the top end or the low end. As soon as a sire shows just a little promise they jack the price thru the roof when in actuality you are still left with a lot of risk ie. Officer @40k, Include@35k, Birdstone@30k, not bad sires just too high at one time. Human nature being what it is this will never change, no one wants to be left behind on a Tapit like rise...the beat goes on.

[Tappiano]

If the 2.5 x the stud fee is still considered profitable than it's not horrendous but at 35K a pop for Uncle Mo does anyone really think that with 100 yearlings going through the ring they will average over 100K each? Same with Lookin At Lucky.

Tapit's weanling and yearling avg sales price are below his stud fee but those are not really with the quality of mares he got this and last year so can't really judge it by that.

Claiborne dropped First Samurai from 40K down to 15K which is still 5K more than I think he's worth.

I'll take Holy Bull at 10K who has a lifetime weanling avg over 50K 74% starters and avg earnings per starter of 62K.

Thunder Gulch is another one at 10K who has an 85K lifetime weanling sales avg and 74% starters.

If the market is still going the same way the stock market did with the overinflated stock prices on "ideas" than there will be no drop in demand for freshman sires again.

[madelyn]

Winstar announced fees - but Sharp Humor is not in the list. What happened?
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/breedi ... -fees.aspx

[bdw0617]

i actually don't have that much to gripe about B'dini's studs fee. it is whwat it is. Not to say he's worth it but if there is a sire in the country worth that much right now it's him.

war front lol


breeders are speaking with their wallets. what can you do. it's not like the stud books aren't being field.


I still think more than ready is good value at 60k. I think he has been undervalued for quite a while.

even worse than the KY stud fees, these people in NY have just gone batshit crazy with these stallion fees.

[HJ]

I actually don't have that much to gripe about B'dini's studs fee. it is whwat it is. Not to say he's worth it but if there is a sire in the country worth that much right now it's him.

Posted on another site

What Bernardini has shown is that he is capable of siring a very good horse. He has had one of the best starts at stud ever in terms of quality of mare served.

Using the Comparative Index (CI) to gauge the overall quality of mare (first crop) served by him it is clear that he had a fantastic book of mares and would have to be a complete disaster if he was not able to come up with some good runners. The first crop (now 3 years old) were bred off a 4.11 CI. Bernardini is currently tracking at AEI / CI of 2.51 / 3.45 (lifetime) which indicates that he is a downgrader of mares bred to him. This may be somehwhat unfair as it would be quite difficult to upgrade across the board with mares of that calibre. To get a perspective of the quality of mare bred to Bernardini a yardstick can be gained through Danehill whose lifetime CI was 2.04

Is one Group One winning three year old (Stay Thirsty) from a crop numbering 110 foals a satisfactory result ? Bernardini did get the GR1 winning 2 yr olds Biondetti (in Italy) and A Z Warrior (USA) from the same crop, neither of whom have won as three year olds. His first crop yielded 4 individual 2 yr old stakes winners, his second so far only one (109 foals), Gamilati, in England.

[Zahrah]

I still think more than ready is good value at 60k. I think he has been undervalued for quite a while.

Actually, Vinery tends to overprice him every few years and then drop him back down. That pisses off a lot of people. Love More Than Ready but refuse to use him at 60k when I can get to horses like Malibu Moon and Tiznow for not much more. And at 40k I was planning on using him for more than one mare.

[bdw0617]

I just think that more than ready is the only horse that is capable of siring a WORLD CLASS turf horse in America. there are some that will get you a good turf horse even a high class turf horse, but a horse like more joyous or regally ready (who i assure you i world class at this point).. there aren't any american sires that can do that.

[Zahrah]

Did you forget about Dyanformer (Americain, Blue Bunting, Rainbow View, etc), Elusive Quality (Elusive City, Raven's Pass, Sevoy, etc), and Giant's Causeway (Footstepsinthesand, Ghanaati, Maids Causeway, Shamardal, etc)?

[kimberley mine]

I just think that more than ready is the only horse that is capable of siring a WORLD CLASS turf horse in America.

Except for Dynaformer and Street Cry. But otherwise you're right, the horses in the US who would sire world class turf runners have largely died or been pensioned off in the last couple of years--Rahy, Kingmambo, El Prado, Lear Fan, Gone West, Danzig, Theatrical.

Hat Trick has the potential, as evidenced by the brilliant Darbirsim, and I think that if Rock Hard Ten went across the pond he'd start hitting sixes and Candy Ride on a Brazilian mare would be lights out. But on the whole, yes, you're spot on.

[Fireslam]

Kittens Joy.

[bdw0617]

Did you forget about Dyanformer (Americain, Blue Bunting, Rainbow View, etc), Elusive Quality (Elusive City, Raven's Pass, Sevoy, etc), and Giant's Causeway (Footstepsinthesand, Ghanaati, Maids Causeway, Shamardal, etc)?

i would agree with you on all of those except giants causeway. i would not call one of those horses world class.


i actually did forget about ravens pass and sevoy is pretty good too.

[Crystal]

again, only fools pay advertised fees.. there are deals to be made everywhere if you have a good mare.

[springboro]

I still think that the stud fee jumps are ridiculously timed and will bite the farms in their collective butts. Greedy greedy greedy.... let the mare owners catch a break for a bit!