What is the reason we are having short fields in Calif. racing?
I have been researching this subject for a good while.
This is my thoughts on why this is happening.
There is not a shortage of TB that are available for racing. As the annual foals are increasing in numbers, as todays stallions are booking more mares.
The reason is because the TB of today is unsounder than their ancestors.
Their is more injuries and the TB are breaking down at an alarming rate.
Mares that should have been culled out long ago, are still in the breeding shed producing medicore TB.
Stallions that have not made an impact in the breeding shed should have been weeded out and culled long ago.
For years in Calif. the breeders keep breeding out of these non-de-plum
mares and stallions in hope that a miracle will happen, and a champion will appear.
If there was a way to award breeders with an incentive to upgrade their bloodstock, this would be a step in the right direction., as soundness would return to the breed.
WHATS CAUSING THE SHORT FIELDS?
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louis finochio
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WHATS CAUSING THE SHORT FIELDS?
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Rick wrote:I thought the workman's comp issue forced out a lot of the smaller stables.
California had been suffering from small fields for years, long before the worker's comp crap came up.
I seem to remember a 4 year spread where they had 5 horse fields for the G1 MILLION DOLLAR Pac Classic.
That's just pathetic.
It's the unfavorable business atmosphere in California toward horse owners and trainers... including the unfair workers' compensation taxes levied. Nothing to do with how many horses are bred, or strains of weak ankles, or anything else whatsoever to do with the current state of the American Thoroughbred. Other parts of the country do not suffer from the short fields... around here races go off full nearly all the time, with AE's in the programs, and trainers are currying favor with the racing secretaries to get more races written.
Only in California could Mr. Wygod have been put through the mill for losing a horse race.... enough to convince a diehard horseman, also a multi-millionaire, that he should get the he__ out of the sport. That is a very unfavorable business atmosphere. Charging trainers so much for workers' compensation coverage that they can't afford to have employees there, and end up moving their entire stables out of state and only shipping in to race is rapacious, egregious, shortsighted and very typical California.
Only in California could Mr. Wygod have been put through the mill for losing a horse race.... enough to convince a diehard horseman, also a multi-millionaire, that he should get the he__ out of the sport. That is a very unfavorable business atmosphere. Charging trainers so much for workers' compensation coverage that they can't afford to have employees there, and end up moving their entire stables out of state and only shipping in to race is rapacious, egregious, shortsighted and very typical California.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
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louis finochio
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I have heard the opinions of trainers John Sadler, Stev Knapp, Uoin Harty, and bloodstock agents. They said that their is no shortage of TB, but these TB are not standing the rigors of training and racing.
I was talking to a bloodstock agent about this problem and he told me that the unsoundness of the breed was taking its toll by causing short fields.
I told Dennis the bloodstock agent to check the pedigrees of Dynaformer, Devil His Due and Successful Appeal.
I wanted him to look at these 3 stallions because they all are line-bred to non-(Phalaris) sire line families, top and bottom.
After checking their pedigrees Dennis agreed with me that these 3 stallions were not the normal breeding pattern that is found in 95 % of the TB stallion population.
These 3 stallions are an example of putting soundness back into the breed.
What we need is more of the same types of matings to add what is missing in our modern day TB.
I was talking to a bloodstock agent about this problem and he told me that the unsoundness of the breed was taking its toll by causing short fields.
I told Dennis the bloodstock agent to check the pedigrees of Dynaformer, Devil His Due and Successful Appeal.
I wanted him to look at these 3 stallions because they all are line-bred to non-(Phalaris) sire line families, top and bottom.
After checking their pedigrees Dennis agreed with me that these 3 stallions were not the normal breeding pattern that is found in 95 % of the TB stallion population.
These 3 stallions are an example of putting soundness back into the breed.
What we need is more of the same types of matings to add what is missing in our modern day TB.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Another defector.... Mike Smith was featured in our Sports section today. Seems he is going to remain at Churchill Downs for the entire Spring meet, heading to New York in the summer and then back here to Louisville this coming Fall.... Gary Stevens will also stay here for the spring meet. It is not just the trainers and horses leaving California... with such short fields, who needs so many jockeys?
Sorry Louis, it has nothing whatsoever to do with weak ankles or too many crosses of Phalaris......
Sorry Louis, it has nothing whatsoever to do with weak ankles or too many crosses of Phalaris......
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
madelyn wrote:it has nothing whatsoever to do with weak ankles or too many crosses of Phalaris
And it's not totally a worker's comp issue either.
Again, take a look at the average fields and you will see that this has been going on for YEARS. This isn't a recent thing, the fields have been dwindling for over a decade now. The worker's comp issue is the just the latest (and largest) largest blow.
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louis finochio
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In Ky. the breeders are blessed with quality stallions for the large, medium and small breeder.
The hard boots are also the blessed with quality mares, as Ky. is the place to raise quality TB.
If it could be possible to move the Ky. bloodstock to Calif. The short fields in Calif. would be history, as its quality over quanity.
If we could move the Calif. bloodstock to Ky. short fields would be the result.
Calif. bloodstock will never compete on the same quality level with KY.
In Calif. their are a multitude of medicore stallions and mares.
Evidence of this is to focus on the Sunshine Millions series, as Calif. has been left in the starting gate.
The hard boots are also the blessed with quality mares, as Ky. is the place to raise quality TB.
If it could be possible to move the Ky. bloodstock to Calif. The short fields in Calif. would be history, as its quality over quanity.
If we could move the Calif. bloodstock to Ky. short fields would be the result.
Calif. bloodstock will never compete on the same quality level with KY.
In Calif. their are a multitude of medicore stallions and mares.
Evidence of this is to focus on the Sunshine Millions series, as Calif. has been left in the starting gate.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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Tucumcari
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I fully agree that it is a workman's comp issue. The outfit I work for paid $450,00 last year alone for compensation. Granted it is a huge operation, but really it's a bit ridiculous.
Louis you can carry on on your crusade against certain bloodlines, unsupported by me,but I hope that you take into account for racing surfaces, bad help ie. gallop people too lazy to take a hold, green grooms...etc, horses that are "hothoused" as youngsters, trainers not allowing young horses to develop bone density and maturity before speed is introduced, breeders who cut corners and are sending in a horse that is ill prepared for the rigors of training, horses that are so inbred they ought to have two heads, etc, etc. The are more factors that add up to unsoundnesses than one can count.
On the bloodlines isse I say get off the cross someone else needs the wood.
Further more trying to compare breeding or the raising of young horses in California versus Kentucky is a really not bright thing to do. We are and have been of the opinion for years that horses develop better in KY. Maybe it's the soil content that leads to a more nutritionally valid grass, hay, etc. Maybe it's that the youngsters have huge fields to run and play in to develop bone and soft tissue. Again a ton of contributing factors that add up to one place being a better place to raise horses. Maybe that's part of why it is our horse racing capital. We live in California, but our broodmare and babies reside in KY year round for a reason. It is something we are commited to and have been rewarded by.
Louis you can carry on on your crusade against certain bloodlines, unsupported by me,but I hope that you take into account for racing surfaces, bad help ie. gallop people too lazy to take a hold, green grooms...etc, horses that are "hothoused" as youngsters, trainers not allowing young horses to develop bone density and maturity before speed is introduced, breeders who cut corners and are sending in a horse that is ill prepared for the rigors of training, horses that are so inbred they ought to have two heads, etc, etc. The are more factors that add up to unsoundnesses than one can count.
On the bloodlines isse I say get off the cross someone else needs the wood.
Further more trying to compare breeding or the raising of young horses in California versus Kentucky is a really not bright thing to do. We are and have been of the opinion for years that horses develop better in KY. Maybe it's the soil content that leads to a more nutritionally valid grass, hay, etc. Maybe it's that the youngsters have huge fields to run and play in to develop bone and soft tissue. Again a ton of contributing factors that add up to one place being a better place to raise horses. Maybe that's part of why it is our horse racing capital. We live in California, but our broodmare and babies reside in KY year round for a reason. It is something we are commited to and have been rewarded by.
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louis finochio
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You will only get out of a TB thats breed into them. There is no magic super bullet, vitamins, electrolights, and formulas that will give those TB super super health.
A TB health is determined by his ancestors, if there ancestors were healthy and had super health and vitality and longevity, they would inherit those same traits.
I have seen many Cal breds that do not fit my description, their coats are dull, eyes are dull, and their general appearance is a non-de-plum.
When Cal breds run in open maiden races they dont win a high % of these races.
If breeders from other parts of the country would bring their Tb to Calif.
and qualify for being a Cal bred their % of wins in those open maiden races would escalate.
A TB health is determined by his ancestors, if there ancestors were healthy and had super health and vitality and longevity, they would inherit those same traits.
I have seen many Cal breds that do not fit my description, their coats are dull, eyes are dull, and their general appearance is a non-de-plum.
When Cal breds run in open maiden races they dont win a high % of these races.
If breeders from other parts of the country would bring their Tb to Calif.
and qualify for being a Cal bred their % of wins in those open maiden races would escalate.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
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Tucumcari
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Louis, your research is sku'd! go to any other racetrack in the world and you will see the same things. Dull hair coat doesn't have a thing to do with ancestry. Good God who sold you that... I heard the Golden Gate is for sale... any takers.
"Soundness would return to the breed"...? Poof just like that..unsoundness banished... except according to you the breed is almost entirely saturated with unsoundness for generation upon generation... but poof. done.
Conformation, nutrition, handling, etc ALL play a role in the development of a sound racehorse.
Louis I have never been on a horse that broke down that I couldn't say I saw it coming. (As wrong as that is!). You know what happens to soft tissue and bone when it is pushed on too hard? It breaks. And nutrition, raising techniques, surface and overall handling encompassing the entirity of the athletes life on this earth. Same goes for the human athlete. That's why we have sports nutritionists, exercise physioligists, and so on. Research is being done continually by professionals who have valid experience in this matter. Even as I type I have a pile of research sitting in front of me done by the foremost minds in the horse industry on this very topic.
Have you ever noticed in your extensive research that some barns always have a higher population of sore horses than others. Handling, Louis...
Where do you think people like Baffert, Lukas, Hollendorfer, Dollase, Sadler, etc get a large# of horses from each year. How many are KY breds competing and yes in some cases breaking down in California... and Kentucky, and Florida, and Texas, New York, Maryland, yada yada yada...
Your research is wrong Louis. You need to see the WHOLE picture not just a little bubble with tunnel vision.
"Soundness would return to the breed"...? Poof just like that..unsoundness banished... except according to you the breed is almost entirely saturated with unsoundness for generation upon generation... but poof. done.
Conformation, nutrition, handling, etc ALL play a role in the development of a sound racehorse.
Louis I have never been on a horse that broke down that I couldn't say I saw it coming. (As wrong as that is!). You know what happens to soft tissue and bone when it is pushed on too hard? It breaks. And nutrition, raising techniques, surface and overall handling encompassing the entirity of the athletes life on this earth. Same goes for the human athlete. That's why we have sports nutritionists, exercise physioligists, and so on. Research is being done continually by professionals who have valid experience in this matter. Even as I type I have a pile of research sitting in front of me done by the foremost minds in the horse industry on this very topic.
Have you ever noticed in your extensive research that some barns always have a higher population of sore horses than others. Handling, Louis...
Where do you think people like Baffert, Lukas, Hollendorfer, Dollase, Sadler, etc get a large# of horses from each year. How many are KY breds competing and yes in some cases breaking down in California... and Kentucky, and Florida, and Texas, New York, Maryland, yada yada yada...
Your research is wrong Louis. You need to see the WHOLE picture not just a little bubble with tunnel vision.
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Tucumcari
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"let those without sin cast the first stone..." You cast stones at the very basis of this industry on a regular basis. I don't really think that breeders are thinking to themselves, "Hmmm how can we weaken the breed this year..."
You continually bash these people whose lively hood is dependant upon not only the survival of this breed, but on it thriving and competing at the highest level. Yep, I am sure they aren't thinking at all about the improvement of the equine athlete when they do all of the research that goes into breeding a successful athletes.
Oh my word am I in a bad mood.
You continually bash these people whose lively hood is dependant upon not only the survival of this breed, but on it thriving and competing at the highest level. Yep, I am sure they aren't thinking at all about the improvement of the equine athlete when they do all of the research that goes into breeding a successful athletes.
Oh my word am I in a bad mood.
Tucumcari, cheer up, I agree with you. People who keep harping on the bloodlines should give up beating a dead horse....I am a breeder, I look at pedigree, overall balance, and most importantly, conformation. A compact sturdy mare like the one I am getting this week, Just Lovely conformation, disposition, desire to win, plus a really golden pedigree... matched with my sound, sturdy stallion, Rocking Trick.... while I have been tootling around in this industry one thing that truly has stood out to me is that most trainers I meet know next to nothing about pedigree, and couldn't care less. Just recently, a trainer I work with has begun to consult me about fillies' post race broodmare value (prospective) prior to making a deal, but that is the exception. If the horse can run and has TB papers, it qualifies for any racing stable.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....