Sub-par performances when going to Ascot?
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Sub-par performances when going to Ascot?
What are the reasons or main differences that that tends to make American GR-1 winners perform sort of sub-par when they race against their European peers at Ascot? Is it true or it is just a false impression?
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bdw0617
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IMHO i don't think that's true.
this is why
beucase, horses when they come over here from toher parts of the world, don't run as well a lot of times. you could say it's beucase our horses are juiced but not all of them are and these are horess that are running at the highest levels of competition the world has to offer and put up numbers that will compete with anyone anywhere
i think it has to do with adapting to the new climent and racing styles.
in particular racing styles.
it takes a certain TYPE of say, miler that can run in europe and can win the BC mile. one that has a high cruising speed and can still hit another gear. those horses that come over here with those killer late kicks usually don't do anything here because we run too fast througout the race for them to still have the energy to produce that kick.
our horses aren't used to running like they run over there. they don't have that kick. they have higher cruising speeds for longer periods of time but aren't asked to use it.
this is why
beucase, horses when they come over here from toher parts of the world, don't run as well a lot of times. you could say it's beucase our horses are juiced but not all of them are and these are horess that are running at the highest levels of competition the world has to offer and put up numbers that will compete with anyone anywhere
i think it has to do with adapting to the new climent and racing styles.
in particular racing styles.
it takes a certain TYPE of say, miler that can run in europe and can win the BC mile. one that has a high cruising speed and can still hit another gear. those horses that come over here with those killer late kicks usually don't do anything here because we run too fast througout the race for them to still have the energy to produce that kick.
our horses aren't used to running like they run over there. they don't have that kick. they have higher cruising speeds for longer periods of time but aren't asked to use it.
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Mickey the Marcher
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Re: Sub-par performances when going to Ascot?
Jorge wrote:What are the reasons or main differences that that tends to make American GR-1 winners perform sort of sub-par when they race against their European peers at Ascot? Is it true or it is just a false impression?
What kind of sample size are you basing this on?
The only American G1 winners in recent history to race at Royal Ascot are Animal Kingdom, Kinsale King and Noble's Promise.
Kinsale King preformed admiribly. He was a strong 3rd in a 24 runner race closing like a express train and he was never going to beat Starspangledbanner that day (who was easily the fastest horse in the world at that point in time).
Noble's Promise was only a 2yo G1 winner, he never came close to winning a G1 as a 3yo. His performance at Ascot was hardly subpar, as he wasn't anywhere near the same class of the likes of Canford Cliffs. He still managed to finish in front of the 2000 Guineas winner Makfi (granted Makfi found a lot of trouble that day). His performance was a true reflection of the quality of horse he was. It's not like he came back to the states and cleaned up in G1s either. He was never a true G1 miler in the first place, so you can't say he ran sub-par.
Animal Kingdom was a true G1 class horse who he did run subpar. I don't think it had anything to do with him being American though. He just didn't show up for whatever reason.
But seriously, your sample size is too small to draw any kind of conclusions.
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Elusive City
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Two aspects deserves further analysis. And I possess no answer to them albeit I think there are two probable hints:
01. The track record set by No Never Nay (not a previous Gr-1 winner) in what seemed like sort of brilliant "relaxed" American styled positioning during the race.
02. Animal Kingdom's out of gas performance while running amid a compact wall of stressed horses neither of which looked "relaxed".
It makes one think of those herded bulls trying to cross an infected river at Africa's Serengeti. That stress has to hurt a horse, at least, emotionally.
In short, what I am trying to pose as a probable angle of study is the
way the pace and strategy unfolds, including the lack of significance to the fractionals in favor of just the miles-per-hour.
I ask, are we running over there trying to conform to their racing styles
rather than racing same as the horse performes in America?
I am convinced that Native Dancer (who at one moment was considered
to be run at the 1953 Epsom Derby) would have run a very poor race had he crossed the Atlantic to compete over there.
01. The track record set by No Never Nay (not a previous Gr-1 winner) in what seemed like sort of brilliant "relaxed" American styled positioning during the race.
02. Animal Kingdom's out of gas performance while running amid a compact wall of stressed horses neither of which looked "relaxed".
It makes one think of those herded bulls trying to cross an infected river at Africa's Serengeti. That stress has to hurt a horse, at least, emotionally.
In short, what I am trying to pose as a probable angle of study is the
way the pace and strategy unfolds, including the lack of significance to the fractionals in favor of just the miles-per-hour.
I ask, are we running over there trying to conform to their racing styles
rather than racing same as the horse performes in America?
I am convinced that Native Dancer (who at one moment was considered
to be run at the 1953 Epsom Derby) would have run a very poor race had he crossed the Atlantic to compete over there.
Hmmm, here is another very logical angle that was recently published
but certainly this is a whole different paradigm affecting all male equines.
http://royal-ascot.racingpost.com/news/ ... w/1299717/
but certainly this is a whole different paradigm affecting all male equines.
http://royal-ascot.racingpost.com/news/ ... w/1299717/
Jorge wrote:Perhaps time to update this topic!
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=34268