Doped Horses on a Juiced Track - SA Gets New Superintendent!

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Whirlaway
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Postby Whirlaway » Sun Nov 10, 2013 2:51 pm

Sysonby wrote:
The doomsday scenario didn't happen and the rest of us are puzzled over the all the angst about a 25 year old medication. I've been following the sport for about 40 years and it has only been in the last three years or so that there has been any organized opposition to Lasix. In my view, forget Lasix. I'd like all of this energy devoted to out of competition testing particularly in stakes races and against the big guys.




I'm perplexed. How can you be devoted to out of competition drug testing and be against testing for drugs given four hours before competition?

Please explain.

What is your position with respect to the IFHA Objective:

1. The objective is to protect the integrity of horseracing and the welfare of the horse through controlling the use of substances capable of giving a horse an advantage or causing it to be disadvantaged in a race, contrary to the horse’s inherent merits.
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Patuxet
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Postby Patuxet » Sun Nov 10, 2013 8:43 pm

Sysonby wrote: "I've been following the sport for about 40 years..."

That time frame coincides with the wholesale use of Lasix, whether needed or not, and on average horses now make 40% fewer starts than they did when you first started following the sport.
"He is pure air and fire and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him; he is indeed a horse ..." Wm. Shakespeare - Henry V

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BenB
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Postby BenB » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:38 pm

The plain difference Iam having a horse for fun and respect their integrity, and a lot of people out in the US, are having horses just like they have stocks, to say how to get the most money out of them.

Puts them full with medications and hopes for the best.

Since the eighties the trainers do not know differently than how to push them above their natural ability. ( medication included)

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Sysonby
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Postby Sysonby » Mon Nov 11, 2013 6:54 am

I started with a snarky response but that solves nothing other than making me feel better.

Do we really want to go back to this?

From the LA Times in 1990:


Nafzger is going to dehydrate Unbridled, gradually taking food and water away from the horse in the 24 hours before the race. Unbridled will also ingest a potassium powder, which is intended to keep his muscle tone high.

"Lasix would be easier, of course," Nafzger said. "The horse has actually gained weight since he ran in the Derby. If he didn't, I would think twice about running the Belmont."

Will the dehydration work, keeping Unbridled from bleeding but not weakening him enough to hurt his chances?

"Nothing is 100% in this world," Nafzger said. "I've done this with horses before, and had some of them run good, and some of them not run one more step."


http://articles.latimes.com/1990-06-06/ ... mer-squall

Not to mention that this is a gambling game. I actually agree with Andy Beyer--and I rarely agree with him on anything, that keeping consistency in the rules is bettor friendly. You don't want to be wondering if the seat of your pants solutions work when a shot of Lasix will solve the problem.

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BenB
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Postby BenB » Mon Nov 11, 2013 9:03 am

Gambling would receive a terrible jump UP, when lasix would be prohibited.

Look at Hong Kong they show extreme high betting turn overs, without the use of lasix, and providing the community with an annual payout from 200 milj. dollars.

Above all what,s worse???? An breakdown just before the stands in face of the public, or an horse pulled up because of bleeding, just instead you,re forgotten. A bad bleeder will not come by surprise, al little drop of blood in the nostrils before an serious attack is always an warning.
Last edited by BenB on Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Pan Zareta
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Postby Pan Zareta » Mon Nov 11, 2013 10:44 am

Sysonby wrote:Not to mention that this is a gambling game. I actually agree with Andy Beyer--and I rarely agree with him on anything, that keeping consistency in the rules is bettor friendly. You don't want to be wondering if the seat of your pants solutions work when a shot of Lasix will solve the problem.


You're quite right about consistency of rules. The problem is that one of the few consistencies among the various North American racing jurisdictions is that they're all inconsistent with the other major global jurisdictions as regards meds/substance use and the degree of EIPH that's allowable in the TB racing population.

Lasix can alleviate symptoms but it doesn't "solve" the problem, just makes it worse in the long run. EIPH is highly heritable. Decades of masking it in much of the western hemisphere has undoubtedly increased the percentage of moderate to severe EIPH in the TB population. There may be little evidence at present of negative impact from this on the international TB market but that will inevitably happen if there's continued NorthAm procrastination about bringing the rules into closer compliance with other int'l. jurisdictions. Difficult as a phase-out of Lasix may seem right now, I can't envision a scenario in which waiting will do anything other than make the 'fall-out' incrementally worse.

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BenB
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Postby BenB » Mon Nov 11, 2013 11:23 am

A damn good read, takes an hour or so.


http://www.khrc.ky.gov/Documents/RaceDa ... script.pdf

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Whirlaway
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Postby Whirlaway » Wed Nov 13, 2013 9:55 am

Pan Zareta wrote:
Sysonby wrote:Not to mention that this is a gambling game. I actually agree with Andy Beyer--and I rarely agree with him on anything, that keeping consistency in the rules is bettor friendly. You don't want to be wondering if the seat of your pants solutions work when a shot of Lasix will solve the problem.


You're quite right about consistency of rules. The problem is that one of the few consistencies among the various North American racing jurisdictions is that they're all inconsistent with the other major global jurisdictions as regards meds/substance use and the degree of EIPH that's allowable in the TB racing population.

Lasix can alleviate symptoms but it doesn't "solve" the problem, just makes it worse in the long run. EIPH is highly heritable. Decades of masking it in much of the western hemisphere has undoubtedly increased the percentage of moderate to severe EIPH in the TB population. There may be little evidence at present of negative impact from this on the international TB market but that will inevitably happen if there's continued NorthAm procrastination about bringing the rules into closer compliance with other int'l. jurisdictions. Difficult as a phase-out of Lasix may seem right now, I can't envision a scenario in which waiting will do anything other than make the 'fall-out' incrementally worse.


Wonderfully well written . . .
Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. - William O. Douglas

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It is the characteristic of the most stringent censorships, that they give credibility to the opinions they attack. - Voltaire

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Patuxet
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Postby Patuxet » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:15 am

Pan Zareta is, as usual, spot on. The heritabilty of bleeding in Thoroughbreds is incontestable. This Blood Horse article contains a link to a compelling study of it: http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... ited-trait
"He is pure air and fire and the dull elements of earth and water never appear in him; he is indeed a horse ..." Wm. Shakespeare - Henry V

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Whirlaway
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New Track Superintendent

Postby Whirlaway » Thu Nov 21, 2013 1:33 pm

Restriction of free thought and free speech is the most dangerous of all subversions. - William O. Douglas

~

It is the characteristic of the most stringent censorships, that they give credibility to the opinions they attack. - Voltaire