The White Fox progeny

[summerhorse]

Reading that article on Chief White Fox it said that 7 of his 10 progeny were white. The ones listed here (does he really have only 10 foals? ) include one "roan" which has to be a DW roan since there is no grey close up. I wonder what the chestnut looks like? LOL what a disappointment if they were trying to get color and everyone else did!

http://www.pedigreequery.com/progeny/the+white+fox

Does anyone have any photos of any of these? I can't find any of the ones without a pic. Have anymore run?

[Jorge]

That is the reason why I do favor and insist that coat colors in Thoroughbreds be described, ordinarily, by their visual appearance (phenotype), rather than by genotypes.
In accordance with this rationale I would like to see the application of the following terms:

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01. White (for the immaculate cases)
02. Stained White (for the maculated up to the more over toned white ones)
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03. Bay
04. Dark Bay or Brown
05. Marked Bay (for the unequivocally bay who is fashioning an overtoned maculated white influence.)
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06. Chestnut
07. Liver Chestnut
08. Marked Chestnut (for the unequivocally chestnut who is fashioning an overtoned maculated white influence.)
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09. Cremello
10. Palomino
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11. Buckskin
12. Perlino
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13. Grey
14. Roan (for the dark-headed Catch A Bird roan phenotyped cases)
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15. Dark Cream or Smokeys (for the darker than cremello/perlino cases)
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16. Black
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In the case of the The White Fox’s so-called “roan” he falls within the “Stained White” cathegory. In the case of his alleged "Chestnut" son, most probably, he is a "Marked Chestnut". If not, then he ought to be a normal "Chestnut".

In the case of Preakness winner Oxbow I would label him under a new term: “Sprinkled Bay” (to avoid calling him like a dark headed “roan” -----a label that is about to proliferate soon within the Thoroughbred breed).

Suggestions?

[summerhorse]

I think "ticked" would be better than sprinkled because that is what that type of coat is called usually, ticked or ticking. Otherwise roaning would be OK IF they would cease calling greys roans at all. It is unlikely we will get a true roan over here anytime soon so confusion would be minimal if roan was used but not if they insist on calling greys roans. They would have to delete that term from any records in the future. NOT going to happen I fear!


I would like to see overo or pinto added after any horse that has obvious pinto markings. A small spot like Big Brown has would just be described as a spot but I think people should be able to tell by looking at the color if a horse was actually a pinto or not. Or extensively roaned like Oxbow or both. I hope Oxbow can pass on his color and isn't just an example of a "sabino" boost to his sire's ticking pattern.

[Jorge]

I think "ticked" would be better than sprinkled because that is what that type of coat is called usually, ticked or ticking. Otherwise roaning would be OK IF they would cease calling greys roans at all. It is unlikely we will get a true roan over here anytime soon so confusion would be minimal if roan was used but not if they insist on calling greys roans. They would have to delete that term from any records in the future. NOT going to happen I fear!


I would like to see overo or pinto added after any horse that has obvious pinto markings. A small spot like Big Brown has would just be described as a spot but I think people should be able to tell by looking at the color if a horse was actually a pinto or not. Or extensively roaned like Oxbow or both. I hope Oxbow can pass on his color and isn't just an example of a "sabino" boost to his sire's ticking pattern.

Summerhorse,

I agree with you, that using the word "ticked" may be much better than using the word "sprinkled".

As per the proposed table, I would also add the term “PAINT”
as an independent “catch all” nomenclature for all these
rare phenotypes, usually associated with unviable foals.
This term is usually related with the “Toveros”, “Overos”,
and “Tobianos”.

Of course these would have no relation with the "sabinos".

[summerhorse]

Paint is a breed registry with only QH, Paint or TB bloodlines. I prefer pinto as it refers to the color itself. I would actually like overo best since tobiano does not exist in TBs but pinto is more familiar to more people.

Oh, and I meant above that it would be easier for people to see by READING a description in a pedigree or somewhere that the horse had pinto markings.

[Derby Lyn]

I think http://www.pedigreequery.com/foxes+and+royalty is Royalty in White
http://www.pedigreequery.com/foxes+and+royalty.

I thought TWF was grey based? Here is Patchen Fox http://www.patlangphoto.com/Dec2011/Tur ... 3&lb=1&s=A

[angrovestud]

Weatherbys in the UK have introduced Painted as the term for any horses registered with the GSB or NTR this applies to the frames in the UK as well as my tobianos it would also apply to splash whites and any sabinos as well
Also you can add bay painted, Chesnut painted, or black painted if so wished

[summerhorse]

I think http://www.pedigreequery.com/foxes+and+royalty is Royalty in White
http://www.pedigreequery.com/foxes+and+royalty.

I thought TWF was grey based? Here is Patchen Fox http://www.patlangphoto.com/Dec2011/Tur ... 3&lb=1&s=A

I guess he is then! I guess I forgot all about the grandsire!!

[KBEquine]

Just updating the thread -

Banachek, 2009, The White Fox x Barbara's Song by Runaway Groom, at Maryland State Fair:

[Jorge]

Any recent news on him as per a stud career?

CHIEF WHITE FOX
(white h 2010)
http://www.pedigreequery.com/chief+white+fox

[Jorge]

CHIEF WHITE FOX --- articles!

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... roughbreds

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... ountaineer

[Jorge]

Added information regarding the following recent news published by The Blood Horse that links NASTIQUE to THE WHITE FOX.

ARTICLE: “Top Mare Nastique Dies at 29”
http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/ ... dies-at-29

ADDED INFORMATION:

Observe that NASTIQUE’s third dam was WITHER WANDER.

WITHER WANDER, was also the mother of WHY WANDER, dam of the white colt, WAR COLORS (who was officially registered as “roan”).

WAR COLORS was the other white foal born in 1963 from the cover of the sire KY COLONEL, who that year also sired the famous white filly WHITE BEAUTY.

WHITE BEAUTY was the originating ancestress of the well-known now deceased white sire, THE WHITE FOX.

[camohn]

Banachek stands at Xanthus Farm here in PA. I did look at him but he wasn't the best match for what I wanted to fix in my mare....so color had to be that last thing on the list. He was better looking than The White Prince though. I saw TWP at KY Horse Park. Color aside he was not a very impressive looking specimen of a TB.

[KBEquine]

camohn, did you look at the other white "The White Fox" son at Xanthus? He is out of a stakes-placed mare. He is completely different in conformation & also a nice horse - would complement different mares than Banachek will.

[camohn]

No...who is the other one?