Sunday Break foals
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Sunday Break foals
Has anyone seen any Sunday Break foals? What are the pluses and minuses of the ones that you have seen?
I've got a nice filly.
She isn't spectacular, but she doesn't have any real weaknesses either (which, I guess is somewhat spectacular in and of itself). She does, however, currently look like she is going to resemble her mom quite a bit more than her sire.
Since I also board mares at the same place that Sunday Break's owner boards several, I have seen quite a few others as well... I think they have about 13 on the farm. Overall, they seem to be pretty well put together, pretty good overall with few weaknesses... however they do seem to be a little plain, perhaps, and while I remember commenting about this one and that one being "nice", I don't remember any being "super special".
I think they do have some pics of his foals on the Gainesway website.
She isn't spectacular, but she doesn't have any real weaknesses either (which, I guess is somewhat spectacular in and of itself). She does, however, currently look like she is going to resemble her mom quite a bit more than her sire.
Since I also board mares at the same place that Sunday Break's owner boards several, I have seen quite a few others as well... I think they have about 13 on the farm. Overall, they seem to be pretty well put together, pretty good overall with few weaknesses... however they do seem to be a little plain, perhaps, and while I remember commenting about this one and that one being "nice", I don't remember any being "super special".
I think they do have some pics of his foals on the Gainesway website.
Ruffian... often, I tend to like those "hard stamp" types too... unless of course they have problems. Vinery has two young stallions who definitely stamp their foals hard and I like them all the more for it (Brahms and More Than Ready).
In defense of Sunday Break, I cannot say he isn't stamping his foals. I think if you knew Sunday Break and saw my filly that you would say he "stamped" her, however I know my mare very, very well and see a little more resemblance to her (at least right now).
Of course, this mare went to Sunday Break based on being a physical match as much as being a good match on paper.
I think he is stamping them somewhat... from what I have seen, they seem to be solid, pretty well put together, and fairly nice. Although I honestly cannot say that I paid much attention to the dams.
In defense of Sunday Break, I cannot say he isn't stamping his foals. I think if you knew Sunday Break and saw my filly that you would say he "stamped" her, however I know my mare very, very well and see a little more resemblance to her (at least right now).
Of course, this mare went to Sunday Break based on being a physical match as much as being a good match on paper.
I think he is stamping them somewhat... from what I have seen, they seem to be solid, pretty well put together, and fairly nice. Although I honestly cannot say that I paid much attention to the dams.
Kal and Fos, thank you for the reports.
I would appreciate anyone's opinion on the following. If you were breeding a mare to sell the foal, which of these 3 sires would you select?
Brahms (kal, from your posts I think that you like him a lot)
Sunday Break
Stormin Fever ( had another stakes winner at CD on Fri)
This is a late foaling(now 11 days overdue) mare that i have that is not booked.
Maybe I should breed to Holy Bull? Just kidding.
Thanks in advance.
I would appreciate anyone's opinion on the following. If you were breeding a mare to sell the foal, which of these 3 sires would you select?
Brahms (kal, from your posts I think that you like him a lot)
Sunday Break
Stormin Fever ( had another stakes winner at CD on Fri)
This is a late foaling(now 11 days overdue) mare that i have that is not booked.
Maybe I should breed to Holy Bull? Just kidding.
Thanks in advance.
Sorry for not seeing your last post sooner...
Tough, tough call...
I love Brahms, but unless they run this year, you will probably be dead-in-the-water with that foal. Commercially, he will either be gold or dust... not much in-between. I don't know that the market will even give him until the end of his sophomore season. Knowing this, I couldn't go to Brahms this year... and I am probably his biggest fan, behind Vinery and T. VanMeter. If I were breeding to race, I would consider him because I have liked the athletic ability of every Brahms we have had.
I've always kinda' liked Stormin' Fever because I always liked the substance his foals seemed to have. I also like the fact that he has had somewhat a resurgence this year. However, is it enough... will the market forget him when there is a "lull" in stakes horses for him. And, even more important, if his popularity falters, will Airdrie ship him off. There are so many sons of Storm Cat that it is very easy for the market to be very, very fickle... and Airdrie's willingness to cull impatiently can make it rough also. LSB would probably advise you to go to him. I know she likes him and I would be hard pressed to argue with her... other than my fears as mentioned.
I am sent another mare to Sunday Break this year... and, honestly, I'm not even sure I like him that much. I love the pedigree and I think if you get a good one the market will reward you. We are planning on selling our foals in November, so we can go with second year stallions and not get burned if the first crop disappoints. Actually, when we breed to second year stallions, we are trying to ride the coat-tails of successful yearling sales, which I think Sunday Break will have. If you are planning on selling as a yearling... the story changes a bit.
Actually, you may be able to get into Holy Bull... and Darley may stay with their advertised fee. His sales figures had been on the decline because of all the disappointment surrounding his lack of a "big" horse... well, that has changed now. I would expect him to be rejuvenated in the sales ring and in stallion service demand over the next year, both could translate to some positives. There are a great many people who truly want to "like" this horse... which is why his sales numbers and book size have not dropped to the very bottom.
I'm high on Kafwain this year... but, I'm not sure he is for every mare and I don't think I would be using him if I were planning to carrying the foals through to yearlings.
I also love my Mizzen Mast colt. In fact, the Mizzen Mast we have on the ground now is the best horse we have bred, and I am not sure there is another even close (although we had a really nice Cape Town colt and More Than Ready filly last year).
Back to your original question... I would be tempted to contact Vinery (actually, contact Ken Wilkens at Vinery) and ask about the Brahms' they have in training. Tell them your concerns about him. Ken will give you a response which is about as honest as you will get in this business. Brahms offers the biggest potential reward... but is a sizeable risk also. (Oh... if the mare is small, I would pass. Brahms tends to need a slightly bigger mare to get those big nice babies that sell well.)
Personally, I used Sunday Break... but, if I were selling yearlings, I am not sure I would have used him.
Oh.. by the way, the stakes winning filly... Sweet Talker. I know her well. I own a sizeable portion of her dam's half sister. I think this mating worked so well because of the Stalwart in Another Vegetarian's pedigree. I don't think ours would have worked nearly as well (trust me... it was a consideration).
Tough, tough call...
I love Brahms, but unless they run this year, you will probably be dead-in-the-water with that foal. Commercially, he will either be gold or dust... not much in-between. I don't know that the market will even give him until the end of his sophomore season. Knowing this, I couldn't go to Brahms this year... and I am probably his biggest fan, behind Vinery and T. VanMeter. If I were breeding to race, I would consider him because I have liked the athletic ability of every Brahms we have had.
I've always kinda' liked Stormin' Fever because I always liked the substance his foals seemed to have. I also like the fact that he has had somewhat a resurgence this year. However, is it enough... will the market forget him when there is a "lull" in stakes horses for him. And, even more important, if his popularity falters, will Airdrie ship him off. There are so many sons of Storm Cat that it is very easy for the market to be very, very fickle... and Airdrie's willingness to cull impatiently can make it rough also. LSB would probably advise you to go to him. I know she likes him and I would be hard pressed to argue with her... other than my fears as mentioned.
I am sent another mare to Sunday Break this year... and, honestly, I'm not even sure I like him that much. I love the pedigree and I think if you get a good one the market will reward you. We are planning on selling our foals in November, so we can go with second year stallions and not get burned if the first crop disappoints. Actually, when we breed to second year stallions, we are trying to ride the coat-tails of successful yearling sales, which I think Sunday Break will have. If you are planning on selling as a yearling... the story changes a bit.
Actually, you may be able to get into Holy Bull... and Darley may stay with their advertised fee. His sales figures had been on the decline because of all the disappointment surrounding his lack of a "big" horse... well, that has changed now. I would expect him to be rejuvenated in the sales ring and in stallion service demand over the next year, both could translate to some positives. There are a great many people who truly want to "like" this horse... which is why his sales numbers and book size have not dropped to the very bottom.
I'm high on Kafwain this year... but, I'm not sure he is for every mare and I don't think I would be using him if I were planning to carrying the foals through to yearlings.
I also love my Mizzen Mast colt. In fact, the Mizzen Mast we have on the ground now is the best horse we have bred, and I am not sure there is another even close (although we had a really nice Cape Town colt and More Than Ready filly last year).
Back to your original question... I would be tempted to contact Vinery (actually, contact Ken Wilkens at Vinery) and ask about the Brahms' they have in training. Tell them your concerns about him. Ken will give you a response which is about as honest as you will get in this business. Brahms offers the biggest potential reward... but is a sizeable risk also. (Oh... if the mare is small, I would pass. Brahms tends to need a slightly bigger mare to get those big nice babies that sell well.)
Personally, I used Sunday Break... but, if I were selling yearlings, I am not sure I would have used him.
Oh.. by the way, the stakes winning filly... Sweet Talker. I know her well. I own a sizeable portion of her dam's half sister. I think this mating worked so well because of the Stalwart in Another Vegetarian's pedigree. I don't think ours would have worked nearly as well (trust me... it was a consideration).
Hi Liberty,
Hope you've had your blessed event by now.
Your choices are a bit over the map? Brahms, Sunday Break and Stormin' Fever. Of the three I'd be most inclined to Sunday Break simply as a stallion.
Stormin' Fever's gotten Tarlow and little else to drive him commercially other then where he stands. He's not showing me what I'd need to breed to him. I saw his full brother, Raging Fever (Metropolitan Stud, NY, $5,000) over the weekend, and though he's not physically imposing (first year at stud), he is quite well made up front - something that most Storm Cat's aren't. I'd be more inclined to breed to Raging Fever since you'll benefit from any boost Stormin' might give you and avoid his possible fall.
Have you considered Petionville? I'd imagine that he's fully booked, but he is really doing the job. Remember, the statistics on Petionville were made with lesser mares and his sales averages are now solid. No discount's on him (Crestwood Farms, KY, $15,000) but he has 93% runners and 79% winner from his first three crops and none had more than 42 foals. 10% SW, including several grades (Island Fashion (G1) the best) from those 3 crops.
You might want to consider a stallion like Wheelaway (McMahon of Saratoga, NY, $6,000). Strapping son of Unbridled, he got 12 foals into the Saratoga Preferred Sale this year and has gotten rave reviews from the graders at Fasig. I can vouch for many of them (I've seen perhaps 20), that they are big, powerful and athletic looking. He's stamping his foals. I have clients who have already purchased seasons to him for next year - intent on playing the bubble.
As far as Sunday Break, his pedigree makes it difficult to forecast how he might perform. Forty Niner sons that have had the best success have been sprinters (Distorted Humor, End Sweep), and routers like Editor's Note haven't fared as well.
Good luck,
Pete
Hope you've had your blessed event by now.
Your choices are a bit over the map? Brahms, Sunday Break and Stormin' Fever. Of the three I'd be most inclined to Sunday Break simply as a stallion.
Stormin' Fever's gotten Tarlow and little else to drive him commercially other then where he stands. He's not showing me what I'd need to breed to him. I saw his full brother, Raging Fever (Metropolitan Stud, NY, $5,000) over the weekend, and though he's not physically imposing (first year at stud), he is quite well made up front - something that most Storm Cat's aren't. I'd be more inclined to breed to Raging Fever since you'll benefit from any boost Stormin' might give you and avoid his possible fall.
Have you considered Petionville? I'd imagine that he's fully booked, but he is really doing the job. Remember, the statistics on Petionville were made with lesser mares and his sales averages are now solid. No discount's on him (Crestwood Farms, KY, $15,000) but he has 93% runners and 79% winner from his first three crops and none had more than 42 foals. 10% SW, including several grades (Island Fashion (G1) the best) from those 3 crops.
You might want to consider a stallion like Wheelaway (McMahon of Saratoga, NY, $6,000). Strapping son of Unbridled, he got 12 foals into the Saratoga Preferred Sale this year and has gotten rave reviews from the graders at Fasig. I can vouch for many of them (I've seen perhaps 20), that they are big, powerful and athletic looking. He's stamping his foals. I have clients who have already purchased seasons to him for next year - intent on playing the bubble.
As far as Sunday Break, his pedigree makes it difficult to forecast how he might perform. Forty Niner sons that have had the best success have been sprinters (Distorted Humor, End Sweep), and routers like Editor's Note haven't fared as well.
Good luck,
Pete
Pete, thanks for the reply. I am all over the lot, but that is what happens when it is late in the year, and you weren't able to breed to the stallion that you wanted.
Stormin Fever did have a graded winner in Japan this past weekend at 1 1/4 miles, which doesn't hurt. I think that he may be ready to have a breakout year.
On another subject, do you have an opinion on Bowman's Band in Md?
Stormin Fever did have a graded winner in Japan this past weekend at 1 1/4 miles, which doesn't hurt. I think that he may be ready to have a breakout year.
On another subject, do you have an opinion on Bowman's Band in Md?
Hi Liberty,
Bowman's Band is a possible choice if you're going to race the foal, but you can get a proven racehorse sire for the same money. I think Bowman's Band will average about 20K for yearlings, but not be commercially compelling. In addition, Dixieland Band's haven't been much more than racehorse sires, ala Dixie Brass, Dixieland Heat, etc.
I simply don't like Stormin' Fever's profile. I think he'll hold for a while, but without a number of solid runners, he'll function like other mediocre sons of Storm Cat, enough interest to keep them breeding - not compelling.
If you want, give me a holler and we'll see if there's something that might be compelling at the right price you can still take advantage of.
Regards,
Pete
Bowman's Band is a possible choice if you're going to race the foal, but you can get a proven racehorse sire for the same money. I think Bowman's Band will average about 20K for yearlings, but not be commercially compelling. In addition, Dixieland Band's haven't been much more than racehorse sires, ala Dixie Brass, Dixieland Heat, etc.
I simply don't like Stormin' Fever's profile. I think he'll hold for a while, but without a number of solid runners, he'll function like other mediocre sons of Storm Cat, enough interest to keep them breeding - not compelling.
If you want, give me a holler and we'll see if there's something that might be compelling at the right price you can still take advantage of.
Regards,
Pete
Hi Liberty,
Didn't forget Citidancer at all. He's a nice stallion - with limited numbers due to the fertility problems - but still mainly a racehorses sire even when his fetility was better.
Too bad we didn't speak earlier in the year, I was sending a number of mares to Saarland and his fee has already doubled.
I was so impressed by the Songandaprayer 2yos at the just concluded FT 2yo sale. Superior physical specimens, fast and fluid. They averaged close to $100k. At $10k Songandaprayer looks like the real deal and if you're still looking for a stallion and can get to him - I recommend it.
Regards,
Pete
Didn't forget Citidancer at all. He's a nice stallion - with limited numbers due to the fertility problems - but still mainly a racehorses sire even when his fetility was better.
Too bad we didn't speak earlier in the year, I was sending a number of mares to Saarland and his fee has already doubled.
I was so impressed by the Songandaprayer 2yos at the just concluded FT 2yo sale. Superior physical specimens, fast and fluid. They averaged close to $100k. At $10k Songandaprayer looks like the real deal and if you're still looking for a stallion and can get to him - I recommend it.
Regards,
Pete
Hi Pete,
As I'm a bit of a fan of the "Fevers," I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
First, I think you're refering to Roaring Fever as the full brother in New York. Raging Fever is their G1SW, millionaire full sister.
Second, after having a terrible year last year, Stormin has had a nice year this year. He's in 3rd on the third crop sires list, behind Charismatic and Forestry. He's sired G1SW Tarlow, as you mentioned, but also the nice turf stakes winner Sweet Talker and the very nice GSW sprinter Storm Wolf.
He does need to be more consistent, but at this point, I think Stormin Fever may have at least bought himself a few more years in KY.
ef
As I'm a bit of a fan of the "Fevers," I thought I'd throw in my two cents.
First, I think you're refering to Roaring Fever as the full brother in New York. Raging Fever is their G1SW, millionaire full sister.
Second, after having a terrible year last year, Stormin has had a nice year this year. He's in 3rd on the third crop sires list, behind Charismatic and Forestry. He's sired G1SW Tarlow, as you mentioned, but also the nice turf stakes winner Sweet Talker and the very nice GSW sprinter Storm Wolf.
He does need to be more consistent, but at this point, I think Stormin Fever may have at least bought himself a few more years in KY.
ef
Pete wrote:Hi Liberty,
Hope you've had your blessed event by now.
Your choices are a bit over the map? Brahms, Sunday Break and Stormin' Fever. Of the three I'd be most inclined to Sunday Break simply as a stallion.
Stormin' Fever's gotten Tarlow and little else to drive him commercially other then where he stands. He's not showing me what I'd need to breed to him. I saw his full brother, Raging Fever (Metropolitan Stud, NY, $5,000) over the weekend, and though he's not physically imposing (first year at stud), he is quite well made up front - something that most Storm Cat's aren't. I'd be more inclined to breed to Raging Fever since you'll benefit from any boost Stormin' might give you and avoid his possible fall.
Have you considered Petionville? I'd imagine that he's fully booked, but he is really doing the job. Remember, the statistics on Petionville were made with lesser mares and his sales averages are now solid. No discount's on him (Crestwood Farms, KY, $15,000) but he has 93% runners and 79% winner from his first three crops and none had more than 42 foals. 10% SW, including several grades (Island Fashion (G1) the best) from those 3 crops.
You might want to consider a stallion like Wheelaway (McMahon of Saratoga, NY, $6,000). Strapping son of Unbridled, he got 12 foals into the Saratoga Preferred Sale this year and has gotten rave reviews from the graders at Fasig. I can vouch for many of them (I've seen perhaps 20), that they are big, powerful and athletic looking. He's stamping his foals. I have clients who have already purchased seasons to him for next year - intent on playing the bubble.
As far as Sunday Break, his pedigree makes it difficult to forecast how he might perform. Forty Niner sons that have had the best success have been sprinters (Distorted Humor, End Sweep), and routers like Editor's Note haven't fared as well.
Good luck,
Pete
Hi Ef, LSB,
Thanks for the correction EF, I'm showing strong signs of lexiadys these days
I did mean Roaring Fever, not his sister Raging.
I agree that Stormin Fever is putting up a fight, but he'll need a steady stream of decent horses if he doesn't get the 'big' one to remain commercial. Sons of Storm Cat seem to hold some appeal even after they are clearly entrenched in mediocrity.
LSB,
I recommended Songandaprayer to two clients, one bred to him, none took. I liked his yearlings, but they are better at 2. I expect to see him near the top of the freshman list and I only hope that I can get some of my people into him @$15,000 next year - I believe that will be a good investment.
Regards,
Pete
Thanks for the correction EF, I'm showing strong signs of lexiadys these days
I did mean Roaring Fever, not his sister Raging.
I agree that Stormin Fever is putting up a fight, but he'll need a steady stream of decent horses if he doesn't get the 'big' one to remain commercial. Sons of Storm Cat seem to hold some appeal even after they are clearly entrenched in mediocrity.
LSB,
I recommended Songandaprayer to two clients, one bred to him, none took. I liked his yearlings, but they are better at 2. I expect to see him near the top of the freshman list and I only hope that I can get some of my people into him @$15,000 next year - I believe that will be a good investment.
Regards,
Pete