What are everyone's thoughts on Hero's Tribute? I really like his female line and they always throw very useful sires... his male line is questionable but I cant help but think it would work exceptionally well with lots of La Troienne. His race record showed versatility and talent.
I must say, I always like Buckpond and their catering to the smaller breeder. They hit it big with Bernstein. Too bad they couldnt keep him... guess the money for him was REAL good.
thoughts on Hero's Tribute?
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Coquinerie
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Re: thoughts on Hero's Tribute?
Coquinerie wrote:What are everyone's thoughts on Hero's Tribute? I really like his female line and they always throw very useful sires... his male line is questionable but I cant help but think it would work exceptionally well with lots of La Troienne. His race record showed versatility and talent.
I must say, I always like Buckpond and their catering to the smaller breeder. They hit it big with Bernstein. Too bad they couldnt keep him... guess the money for him was REAL good.
I've considered him to but think $5,000 for an unproven son of Sea Hero can't be justified. I'd breed to Evansville Slew(can get to him for $2,500) as he is a proven sire of useful runners. HT is all speculation at this point.. and like most speculative stallions in the first few years will prove out to be over-priced and limited in the production department.
I wouldn't want to pay over $2,500 for HT and would only seriously consider him at $1,500. HT has proven nothing as a stallion and until he does his pedigree(Sea Hero) can't be justified @ $5,000, IMO.
I also considered Champali.. but can't justify $7,500 for an unproven son of Glitterman. I'd consider Champali around $2,500.. $3,500 tops.
Frankly, I'm surprised they can get enough mares to all these studs anymore. And with some studs being breed to 150-200 mares the day of reckoning is fast approaching where there is going to be such an abundance of FuPegs/Giants Causeway/Storm Cat sons etc that the fees are going to collapse under there own weight of over-supply. It's just a matter of time before the owner of mares will have some real leverage on dictating stud fees(which have been a rip-off for far to long).
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Coquinerie
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Although I agree with you that a lot of stallions are over-priced, i'm not sure I think Hero's Tribute doesnt warrant 5k. Other than his sire, he hails from a female family that's produced no less than 10 G1 producing stallions, he won from 7-10f... was a debut winner at Saratoga over Volponi... defeated the heralded E Dubai, Keats, Mongoose, A.P. Valentine, Dollar Bill, Najran, Tenpins, Gander, Champali etc. while racking up over 862k. He has a lot going for him... just weak on the sire line.
Coquinerie wrote:Although I agree with you that a lot of stallions are over-priced, i'm not sure I think Hero's Tribute doesnt warrant 5k. Other than his sire, he hails from a female family that's produced no less than 10 G1 producing stallions, he won from 7-10f... was a debut winner at Saratoga over Volponi... defeated the heralded E Dubai, Keats, Mongoose, A.P. Valentine, Dollar Bill, Najran, Tenpins, Gander, Champali etc. while racking up over 862k. He has a lot going for him... just weak on the sire line.
As I stated I'd take a chance on him at the right price. But $5,000 is to high, IMO. You're better off "dealing" on a young, unproven stallion who doesn't have the most fashionable of pedigrees.
If I owned HT I'd be trying to breed as many quality mares as possible by way of a lower fee, thus possibly making a name for himself down the road which leads to an increased fee. For $5, 000 you can breed to many, many nice stallions that are proven. Who knows how good Concerto might turn out to be in the next year or two. We know he can sire a good horse as Bellamy Road has proven and I believe his pedigree is more fashionable being by Chief's Crown out of an In Reality mare. I much prefer the proven Concerto at $5,000 over the unproven HT at the same price.
Karie wrote:I have to agree that $5,000 is too high for HT... The sire line is VERY week... Buckpond does price thier stallions well though and do come up with some good sires. I am sure I could be wrong.. but I cant warrant spending $5,000 for ANY son of Sea Hero (or Sea Hero himself!)....
Agree on Buckpond and have always been a supporter of the small farms for the reason you stated(competitive stud prices and generally better service). I'd venture to guess that the owner of HT(Oxley was and may still be)is holding Buckpond's feet to the fire on the $5,000 fee. I think it's a mistake and will cost them in the long run.
Anyone that has a decent/good mare is looking out for her best interest and any unproven stallion is a risk. Therefore, the price has to be enticing to attract such mares, IMO. There are to many proven stallions in that range to warrant such a risk at $5,000. The same holds true for Champali at $7,500 and Soto at the same price.
I'll go to a proven stallion for the same price nearly everytime. There has to be more incentive from these new stallions for me to jump on the wagon. Strangely though, speculation seems to have trumped proven worthiness in recent times(even the past 2-3 decades for that matter see: yearling sales etc). Somewhat reminiscent of internet stocks a few years back.
As for HT.. I can't see a son of Sea Hero having much appeal commercially in a few years either... unless his off spring are stunningly beautiful.. which is another speculative gamble.
Brings back some memories for me.
I was the under bidder on Hero's Tribute's half sister, Doppio Espresso in the DEC FT sale of 1999 (she went for $24,000).
She hadn't had a foal in 2 years, and her last foal previous to that was a Capote that sold for $1,000! She had 2 Wild Agains bring $30,000 and $60,000 and the second won $136k.
I had asked around and felt that she had been poorly handled. I spoke with an expert on breeding mares and felt that she would improve with better care.
Her 2001 filly RESPLENDENCY (by Tale Of The Cat) brought $500,000 and won the Monrovia H (L). Her 2003 filly by Dynaformer brought $450,000.
She sure did turn around. I wouldn't have bred to these stallions, so who's to say, but the results were rather illuminating.
Regards,
Pete
I was the under bidder on Hero's Tribute's half sister, Doppio Espresso in the DEC FT sale of 1999 (she went for $24,000).
She hadn't had a foal in 2 years, and her last foal previous to that was a Capote that sold for $1,000! She had 2 Wild Agains bring $30,000 and $60,000 and the second won $136k.
I had asked around and felt that she had been poorly handled. I spoke with an expert on breeding mares and felt that she would improve with better care.
Her 2001 filly RESPLENDENCY (by Tale Of The Cat) brought $500,000 and won the Monrovia H (L). Her 2003 filly by Dynaformer brought $450,000.
She sure did turn around. I wouldn't have bred to these stallions, so who's to say, but the results were rather illuminating.
Regards,
Pete
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Coquinerie
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I'm glad you mentioned this Pete because I really think this is one of the more underrated families in the US that I consider "top tier". I just tend to like what they throw on the track and in the shed. Maybe that's why I like Hero's Tribute for 5k... I just like the idea of a viable son of Sea Hero from a known stallion producing family. Plus its fun to play with the La Troienne lines. I think he will be a very good breed to race stallion.
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Coquinerie
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Oh im not breeding yet. I have 3 fillies, a still unraced two year by Crafty Prospector named Handpainted Angel, a 3 time stakes placed 100k plus earner named Chitchat Chitchat, and my stakes placed 100k plus namesake Coquinerie. At this point, only Chitty will for sure be bred next year and i'll be aiming at a commercial foal so Hero's Tribute wont be on the list. I've just found him interesting as a breed to race stallion.
Nice trio! What's the plan for your CP filly?-
Coquinerie
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Hi and thanks! I kind of set me sights on family over individual... and try to go for the first foal from a mare since, when dealing with back class families, often go for pennies of what they're worth. The first two fillies just happened to be from the same line, but the CP filly was bought with the idea of the line seeming to work for me... line as in the Miss Carmie line. The CP filly will race probably in the next month or so... so here's hoping she's as talented as we think she is.