Freud - industry insight?

monicabee · Postby **monicabee** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 4:32 am

I saw part of the FT sales online yesterday and was suprised to see Freud yearlings being sold there.

I know his yearlings looked really good at the Saratoga Sales last year as I saw some myself, and they were being considered by serious horse people. Some have started to run, though none have burned up the track yet.

I was even more suprised to see them going for such high prices. Is he really being viewed as a poor man's Giants Causeway and thus benefiting from the hype secondhand? Is this strategic marketing - the yearlings being bought by his connections?

I'm rooting for him to have a career, as a newbie I am just wondering if I am interpreting information correcctly. I do think that Lakland/Becky Thomas seem to have a good grip on how to produce New York breds that are a cut above. While I haven't done statistics on them they must be doing pretty well on breeders awards because they have produced quite a few winners.

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:35 am

There is possibly another dynamic at work in the case of Freud. He may be producing athletic looking horses that are appealing to the pinhookers and until he proves that he cannot sire runners, they'll get bids.

I know someone who went to Kentucky and after two days of walking around and looking at about 170 horses, actually had a Freud on his shortlist. I'm not sure he ever heard of the stallion but he liked what he saw out there with this one. Incidentally this horse brought almost $200,000 so other people liked him too.

skeenan · Postby **skeenan** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:45 am

I had to look him up out of curiosity... do you mean to say that a stallion with a stud fee of $5,000 has yearlings selling for around $200,000...??

Dang...!! :shock:

Wish I got on that bandwagon...! :mrgreen:

That's one nice return on a $5,000 investment...

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 7:56 am

skeenan wrote::shock:

I had to look him up out of curiosity... do you mean to say that a stallion with a stud fee of $5,000 has yearlings selling for around $200,000...??

Dang...!!
Wish I got on that bandwagon...! That's one nice return on a $5,000 investment...

Actually, he sold 4 for $175,000, $170,000, $95,000 and $195,000. But--and it's a big but--this is only one sale and this is probably the creme dela creme of the Freuds. A better gauge might be the 10 or so selling at the Saratoga preferred sale next month. Up to this point this year, he had 3 yearlings sell for an average of $4900 and last year they sold for an average of about $50,000. Still not bad at all...

monicabee · Postby **monicabee** » Tue Jul 19, 2005 12:17 pm

Sysonby, good point about the pinhookers. You prodded me to start a little research.... or should I say analysis:

A colt, now named Psychotic Reaction, sold for $45 K at Saratoga last year, then for $205 at the FT Calder sale to West Point, who are now syndicating him for $38K for 10% - making his "value" now $380K! He's up at Saratoga in training with Rick Violette. There's a picture of him on West Point's web site, and he is a good looker.

Another colt out of Palace Emblem sold to Peachtree, another partnership, at the same sale for $300K to be trained by Todd Pletcher.

On the flip side, two other Freuds in the sale were bought by Lakland Racing for $50K each - so they are obviously propping up his sales to some extent.

The fact that these are all NY breds gives them the chance to clear $100K in earnings in the statebred races with ease if they are top drawer in that class, before they even try open company, and then there are restricted stakes.

I'm watching with curiousity!

TBLADY · Postby **TBLADY** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:11 am

as someone who bred to Freud this season I hope and pray our mare has no issues...we intend to sell our Freuds at the sales and hope we see the same success as others who ahve bred to him. Now if we could just see one of his 2 y/o's win and break their maiden...all in due time I suppose.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:59 am

Class pedigrees in Fasig-Tipton sale
By MICHAEL VEITCH
Yearlings by New York sires Freud, Good and Tough, and Phone Trick are among 20 New York-breds cataloged to the Fasig-Tipton Kentucky July yearling sale. The two-day auction, which heralds a succession of yearling sales in the coming months, gets underway on Monday.

Freud, whose yearlings make up his second crop, is represented by four in the sale, including a beautifully bred colt from a family of Grade 1 winners.

That colt is out of Sultry Secret, a half-sister to Sultry Song, winner of the Hollywood Gold Cup and Woodward, and Solar Splendor, winner of the Turf Classic and Man o' War. Sultry Song and Solar Splendor both earned more than $1 million during their careers.

Freud is also the sire of a full brother to a New York-bred stakes winner, Multiplication, who captured the Mike Lee Stakes at Belmont Park last year.

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When the gavel fell for that Freud colt, I got him. He was beautiful, but I must admit there was a risk NOT mentioned in this article by DRF ( http://drf.com/news/article/66809.html ). First off, the first Dam has been a dud. I mean DUD. Look up: Sultry Secret: http://www.pedigreequery.com/sultry+secret

I dont thing she has had a foal out of 10 race yet!!!! Good news is Mott has the full Bro to mine, and he is on the race path. We all know the value of the Second Dam, but thats not showing up YET.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:26 am

I must add, Freud is throwing some BEAUTIFUL foals. they were the talk of the sale.

halo · Postby **halo** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:32 am

I know several agents who buy at the 2 year old sales, not for syndication purposes, but as buying for race horse prospects. None of them bought Freuds; their comments on them were they were beautiful horses but lousy movers. It will be interesting to see how they turn out; I wonder if their movement issues will translate into being turf horses. Wouldnt surprise me if they were.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 11:51 am

halo wrote: II wonder if their movement issues will translate into being turf horses. Wouldnt surprise me if they were.

Me neither, and not simply because of movement issues.

Giants Causeway--champion on Turf
Quest Star--Multiple G2W/G1P on Turf
Panoramic--Multiple G2W on Turf
Air Zion--G3W on Turf
Tumblebrutus--G3P on Turf

One could argue that Storm Cat's best foals have been grass runners, and aside from Serena's Song, Rahy's best foals have been grass runners. That combined with an obvious affinity of this strong family for turf should lead one to suspect that the Freuds just might like the grass too.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 2:12 pm

Same goes for Unbridled's Song, Brad Brush and many others. I was suprised to see how much turf Broad Brush threw.

Sysonby · Postby **Sysonby** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 7:15 pm

dray33 wrote:
When the gavel fell for that Freud colt, I got him. He was beautiful, but I must admit there was a risk NOT mentioned in this article by DRF ( http://drf.com/news/article/66809.html ). First off, the first Dam has been a dud. I mean DUD. Look up: Sultry Secret: http://www.pedigreequery.com/sultry+secret

I dont thing she has had a foal out of 10 race yet!!!! Good news is Mott has the full Bro to mine, and he is on the race path. We all know the value of the Second Dam, but thats not showing up YET.

Congratulations! You'll be happy to know that 5 out of 10 did make it to the track--they just didn't do much. But Venetian Gold won a MSW at Del Mar and Social Approval was an allowance winner at Gulfstream so the pot is percolating somewhat.

llbean · Postby **llbean** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:31 pm

kimberley mine wrote:One could argue that Storm Cat's best foals have been grass runners, and aside from Serena's Song, Rahy's best foals have been grass runners. That combined with an obvious affinity of this strong family for turf should lead one to suspect that the Freuds just might like the grass too.

Hi Kimberley,

You have a lot of very good ideas and your main point (Freud's get will probably be turfy) makes sense to me; but I can't agree that it can be even be argued that Storm Cat's best foals have been grass runners. Everything about the muscular Storm Cat physique is adapted for American Dirt and Storm Cat became the $500,000 Stud Fee stallion he is today based on based on GSWs, GIWs, and Champions who ran in AMERICA, not Europe.

The fact that his get seems to do nearly or equally as well on the turf in interesting; but clearly Storm Cat is a dirt sire with versatility (in the same way the ultimate source of the Storm Cat phenotype, Secretariat, was a Dirt Runner with enough versatility to win GIs on the grass), rather than a bona fide turf sire like Theatrical or Rahy.

-llbean

p. s.

Thanks for the heads up on the Argentenian mare Empiric. Powerful stuff...

Coquinerie · Postby **Coquinerie** » Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:50 pm

I pretty much agree with all that you've said LLBean but isnt it interesting that some of Rahy's most celebrated daughters on and off the track excelled on the dirt and their offspring are excelling on BOTH surfaces? Serena's Song, Mariah's Storm, Exotic Wood, Raw Gold, and Miss Ra He Ra to name a few... of course the first two have been EXCEPTIONAL in the shed... amazing mares... both of them.

dray33 · Postby **dray33** » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:32 am

Sysonby wrote:Congratulations! You'll be happy to know that 5 out of 10 did make it to the track--they just didn't do much. But Venetian Gold won a MSW at Del Mar and Social Approval was an allowance winner at Gulfstream so the pot is percolating somewhat.

Good to know Sysonby... thanks for the info. We bought this one strictly on the individual and not the page. He is a pinhooking prospect for the 2 Y.O sales... we'll see if we can get him to run.