I started a thread on another forum about this and didn't get the responce I expected. I'm am interested in hearing the "real" stories regarding some of the really tough even savage horses out there past and present, also if any one knows if these horses passed on these traights
Thanks!!
tough horses
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louis finochio
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Nearctic and Amerigo are two that were bad dudes.
Nearctic was almost gelded because he was bordering on a rogue. If he was gelded that would have eliminated the Northern Dancer dynasty that we are seeing today.
Amerigo was so bad that they had to walk him with a special groom that could handle him, as a green hot walker would be ate alive by Amerigo.
Amerigo had to be blind folded before being loaded in the gate.
Nearctic was almost gelded because he was bordering on a rogue. If he was gelded that would have eliminated the Northern Dancer dynasty that we are seeing today.
Amerigo was so bad that they had to walk him with a special groom that could handle him, as a green hot walker would be ate alive by Amerigo.
Amerigo had to be blind folded before being loaded in the gate.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
I believe that War Relic by Man O' War has been described as viscious.
I also have been told that Silver Ghost is never taken out of his stall without a muzzle, and Essence of Dubai is extremely "difficult". Maybe others can give more information on these three.
Laurie
I also have been told that Silver Ghost is never taken out of his stall without a muzzle, and Essence of Dubai is extremely "difficult". Maybe others can give more information on these three.
Laurie
So many pedigrees...so little time. (C)
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nferro9925
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Going way back - Man O'War's grandsire Hastings was very nasty. Many of his offspring had a version of his temper.
MOW's full sister Masda got his temper as well.
I know one stallion WAS gelded after a season or two in stud becuase he savaged a groom, and (old age here) I cannot remmeber his name.
I keep thinking it iwas Fantastic Light, but it isn't, but another one that starts with "F"?
Discover was rumored to have been temperd.
MOW's full sister Masda got his temper as well.
I know one stallion WAS gelded after a season or two in stud becuase he savaged a groom, and (old age here) I cannot remmeber his name.
I keep thinking it iwas Fantastic Light, but it isn't, but another one that starts with "F"?
Discover was rumored to have been temperd.
hi kezeli...hi guys
Foolish Pleasure...was an extremely dangerous stallion. When he stood at stud in Kentucky at Spendthrift...he lived (more often than not) in his outdoor paddock close to the stallion barn...and was not shown (on a leadshank) to visitors. If you wanted to see FP...you looked at him from outside his paddock. Farm staff warned you not to stand too close to the fence.
Storm Bird...was probably even more dangerous. He was in a position (on at least two separate occasions) to mame or kill an Ashford stallion professional...a fellow who subsequently moved on to be the stallion manager at Hopewell. During one event, after the Ashford stallion professional ended up on the the ground in the paddock...Storm Bird got on the fellow's chest with his knees (while in his paddock). SB was apparently known (by the staff) for his sometimes savage-like behavior. I'm told that policy was (Re: Storm Bird) for two Ashford stallion professionals to be on hand at all times when working with him. Apparently the second Ashford stallion professional (that fortunately was at the scene and I'm told prepared and willing to kill SB if necessary) was on the verge of hitting him in the head with a wooden-handle (shillelagh-like) instrument. Storm Bird backed off before being hit.
On another occasion Storm Bird savaged the same gentleman...who was significantly scarred as a result.
Respectfully
Foolish Pleasure...was an extremely dangerous stallion. When he stood at stud in Kentucky at Spendthrift...he lived (more often than not) in his outdoor paddock close to the stallion barn...and was not shown (on a leadshank) to visitors. If you wanted to see FP...you looked at him from outside his paddock. Farm staff warned you not to stand too close to the fence.
Storm Bird...was probably even more dangerous. He was in a position (on at least two separate occasions) to mame or kill an Ashford stallion professional...a fellow who subsequently moved on to be the stallion manager at Hopewell. During one event, after the Ashford stallion professional ended up on the the ground in the paddock...Storm Bird got on the fellow's chest with his knees (while in his paddock). SB was apparently known (by the staff) for his sometimes savage-like behavior. I'm told that policy was (Re: Storm Bird) for two Ashford stallion professionals to be on hand at all times when working with him. Apparently the second Ashford stallion professional (that fortunately was at the scene and I'm told prepared and willing to kill SB if necessary) was on the verge of hitting him in the head with a wooden-handle (shillelagh-like) instrument. Storm Bird backed off before being hit.
On another occasion Storm Bird savaged the same gentleman...who was significantly scarred as a result.
Respectfully
There was a stallion named Aly T who attacked his handler, got her on the ground, and did the kneeling/stomping, ripping her apart thing. She lost an arm and had to have several skin grafts. She had handled him for a long time with no problems, but for some reason he snapped that day. It's been about 6 years ago so my details are fuzzy on what happened, but I think he got her down and started trying to kill her, and another stallion on the place either jumped or broke through fences to get to the scene. He attacked Aly T, giving the handler an opportunity to drag herself out of the paddock, which is really the only reason that she lived. There was a write up of the story in Equus Magazine and maybe others as well. Aly T was destroyed and I don't know the temperament of his offspring so I can't comment on that.
**************************************
"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
"Don't be a boorish buffoon" -Hokies Respect 'Jerk Alert'
Old Discussion on Temperment
I've copied an old thread that deals with the same issue. You may find them enjoyable.
Bad Attitudes
Author: Shannon
Date: 12/21/2003 7:14 pm
Everyone talks about the stallion Ribot and his passing of a poor temperment on to his foals. Are there a lot of stallions like that around that are notorious for throwing poor temperment or a "mean" streak? I came across 3 foals of the same stallion here in Canada about 10 years ago that had the same sort of mental block. They would not load and when pushed, completely shorted out and were unreasonable to the point of dangerous. They were all chestnut with a lot of white. Can't remember the stallions name. Is this sort of thing more coincidence than genetic or are there certain bloodlines that pas these traits on?
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Roguelet
Date: 12/22/2003 5:31 am
Also consider handling and early training. Sometimes (not always, just SOMETIMES) behavior problems can trace directly back to a certain way of doing things. Say, for example, a farm owns a stallion... a number of that stallion's foals are born there at the farm, and the early training is done there. They may go on to be owned and raced by different people, but may all have had the same "not so good" first experience, and may show similar behaviors that get contributed to "mental" issues. Now that stallion is in question for passing on mental problems. It may be compounded by the fact that maybe the farm that stands the stallion also raced him themselves and also started his training the same way, so the stallion himself showed similar behaviors.
I am not saying that genetics can't play a part, in fact I believe that it does. I think it's about half genetics and half environment, give or take depending on the horse and the situration, and the environment portion often gets overlooked.
Since the "natural horsemanship" movement has taken off again, many people with excellent intentions watch a tape or read a book and then try these methods thinking they are doing what's best for their horse, but just like any other training method if your timing is not just right or if you don't fully understand the theory behind the training, you can mess a horse up just as easily using these methods as you can using any other method. I think people tend to not think about that as much with natural horsemanship because most of the early phases are done on the ground, so people think they don't have to be as knowledgeable or as good at training as they do with other methods where you're on the horse's back... but the whole process is based on subtle cues and body language, which most humans already don't have a great handle on, and if you aren't really careful you can send the wrong message when you think you're sending the correct one.
Just my personal opinion and two cents worth...
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: ab
Date: 12/22/2003 6:17 am
I have seen two Belong To Me fillies who were both mean. One of them was so anti social that she would just curl up in her stall most of the time. If she did stick her nose out the door it was because she was looking for another horse to bite. It's a small sample, but I have to wonder about the sire.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: LJ
Date: 12/22/2003 6:32 am
There are certainly some horses that seem more prone to passing on behavioral traits than others.. The one that comes to mind for me is With Approval, they can have talant but can be pretty wacky too.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: strideaway
Date: 12/22/2003 8:18 am
It always amazes me that the stallion is blamed for bad behaviour and never the mare.I'm with Roguelet on the horses upbringing playing a part. C.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Roguelet
Date: 12/22/2003 8:42 am
Very true... if you go with the "half is genetics and half is environment" theory, then you also have to realize that only half of the genetic half comes from the stallion, the other half of the genetic half stems from the mare!
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: LJ
Date: 12/22/2003 8:47 am
I think it's a numbers thing. A mare can maybe have 10 offspring and very often, no matter who the stallion is these foals do share traits that can be attributed to the mare. While any given stallion can have hundreds of offspring, when you see similar traits in them I attribute them to that stallion.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Bill from WA
Date: 12/22/2003 8:56 am
The great mare Canterbury Pilgrim was vicious (she was eventually banned from the starting gate). The only living creature that she tolerated was a gelding named Flare Up. Her son, Chaucer, inherited much of his dam's foul temperament.
Bill
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Mahubah
Date: 12/22/2003 5:27 pm
The notorious Hastings was another one that got his temperament from Mama -- his dam, *Cinderella, was a great producer but thoroughly evil-tempered by all accounts, while his sire Spendthrift actually had a reputation as a pretty sweet-natured stallion.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Roguelet
Date: 12/22/2003 6:20 pm
On a similar thought, I wonder how much of a dam-inherited behavior is actual genetics and how much is learned from being raised by that mare? It would be an interesting study if there was ever any way set it up.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Ribot
Date: 12/22/2003 8:34 pm
I'm a firm believer that foals pick up on the dam's attitude and rank within groups of horses. I'm good friends with Craig Banderoff of Denali Stud and he uses Serena's Song as an example for a few things, one of which is a mare that runs the show. Apparently this little champion was quite viscious on the track and its carried over to life on the farm. I'll never forget him saying the only time you dont have to watch your fingers and your back around her is when she's foaling.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 9:48 am
Con Game, dam of Seeking The Gold, is a nasty one who who passed it on to STG.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 9:57 am
Vampire 1889 (Galopin x Irony) was so viscious she killed her first foal immediately after birth. Her son Flying Fox, winner of the 2000 Guineas, Epson Derby and St. Leger, also inherited her temper and had to be taken out of training.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Heather T.
Date: 12/23/2003 12:16 pm
Northern Dancer and Halo were known to have gotten some difficult horses. Interestingly, they have the same second dam, Almahmoud. I've often wondered if she was the source of their temperament.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Nancy T. (12.16.102.---)
Date: 12/23/2003 12:42 pm
I heard halo described once as the most phsychotic horse that ever walked. (on espn weekly racing program) has he passed on this poor temper? how is Devil his Due and his get?
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Bill from WA
Date: 12/23/2003 1:06 pm
Almahmoud was not a mean individual, but was very nervous, high strung and difficult to handle. She passed this trait on to many of her offspring.
Bill
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 1:51 pm
Devil His Due is said to be very gentle.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Rick (199.0.136.---)
Date: 12/23/2003 1:56 pm
I once read that Menetrier needed 3 men to lead him. Two to hold the chain and a third with a gun to shot him if he got loose.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Bill from WA
Date: 12/23/2003 2:03 pm
Halo kind of came about his nasty temperament naturally. His sire Hail To Reason was very high strung and flighty, and his maternal granddam had much the same temperament. Nearco was a very headstrong and self willed horse, and Ribot's sire, Tenerani, used to climb the walls of his stall, and could only be calmed by a companion sheep. Tesio hated Tenerani, and sold him the instant he got a decent offer. He didn't much care for Ribot's dam either. Speaking of Halo, have any of you found that the Halo's have been cribbers? At one time Halo was scheduled to be sold to England but the deal fell through becase of his cribbing habit.
Bill
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Jessi P
Date: 12/23/2003 2:12 pm
Conte di Savoya was/is reportedly a savage, supposedly why he was sold...... when he was sold at Keeneland he had 2 of his OWN handlers on him, instead of the Keeneland ring handlers, the first time this ever happened. He is standing in Ill now, his daughter that I had (that I gave away a few weeks ago) is just plain evil. She went to be a project for a boys' home.... I imagine she is will try to reduce the orphan population.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 3:15 pm
I heard Criminal Type became unmanageable when he was sent to Japan.
A horse named Thady Quill was said to be horrible to work around.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Krista
Date: 12/23/2003 3:16 pm
I have encountered quite a few Halo offspring (even grandsons) that crib.
Regarding Serena's Song, I got to work with Serena's Tune who was as sweet as could be... until the day she foaled... That morning she was cranky and mean... and was quite resentful towards her foal, who ended up being put on a nursemare.
I truely believe that bad handling creates the majority of horses with 'bad attitudes', and there are very few that are actually truely evil
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Alibhai's Alibar
Date: 12/23/2003 3:31 pm
Tabasco Cat supposedly throws some mean babies- but he's quite a handful himself, right?
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Crystal
Date: 12/23/2003 5:26 pm
NY stallion Signal Tap was a mean one as well, and a couple of his fillies we had at the track were mean as hell. Good runners, but mean.. We had them behind screens after they grabbed a few hotwalkers, and myself as well.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Mahubah
Date: 12/23/2003 5:48 pm
Funny that Almahmoud was such a nerve case; maybe it came through the dam's side. I remember reading an obit on *Mahmoud that mentioned him as being absolutely gentle. Sort of like Silver Charm; they say he's the one at his farm they can let the kids pat and have pictures taken with (under supervision, of course!).
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Christine
Date: 12/23/2003 7:40 pm
I have to go with 1/2 of it can be put on the dam as well as the sire. I only had one really bad one I had to send to auction to get rid of her.......couldn't sell her or give her away...and got all of 500.00 for her. Her sire was a sweet horse and dam was mean as hell.......lunged out and bit more than a few helpers in her barn as they were sweeping the aisles. I had every expert look at her (vet, dentist, chiropractor) to rule out a physical problem & no one could find anything wrong with her. I've heard those stories about Halo.....don't have any Halo mares myself, but do have 1 coming to be bred to my colt this summer. We'll see how she does! Fortunately my elderly Hail To Reason mare (o/o an Axe mare........anyone know what he's like?) is very sweet. Cinchy/girthy with a saddle, but that's about it. My stud colt is luckily an absolute doll to handle. Hardly know he's not a gelding at home. (Gets a bit excited away from home, but is getting a lot better with experience there.) Most of his manly relatives (Roanoke, Rock Point and Silver Charm's sire:Silver Buck) I think have pretty good minds.......which has a lot to do with why I picked him as a stallion candidate before he was old enough for the old hormones to kick in and see what I was really getting.....! Fortunately I didn't know about his dam when I bought him. She ended up in the barn of someone I know and they said she is "professional handler only" material. (She is the one by Rock Point.... and he has had a lot of hunter babies...so they have to have some sort of manners.) She must be fluke or badly handled when she was young or also had a mean momma.
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RE: Halo
Author: Jessi P
Date: 12/24/2003 7:15 am
I have a page on my website with a couple pics from when I saw Halo shortly before his death, with some comments from the stallion manager.. someone might find it interesting. http://members.aol.com/jesspzro/halo.html
Bad Attitudes
Author: Shannon
Date: 12/21/2003 7:14 pm
Everyone talks about the stallion Ribot and his passing of a poor temperment on to his foals. Are there a lot of stallions like that around that are notorious for throwing poor temperment or a "mean" streak? I came across 3 foals of the same stallion here in Canada about 10 years ago that had the same sort of mental block. They would not load and when pushed, completely shorted out and were unreasonable to the point of dangerous. They were all chestnut with a lot of white. Can't remember the stallions name. Is this sort of thing more coincidence than genetic or are there certain bloodlines that pas these traits on?
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Roguelet
Date: 12/22/2003 5:31 am
Also consider handling and early training. Sometimes (not always, just SOMETIMES) behavior problems can trace directly back to a certain way of doing things. Say, for example, a farm owns a stallion... a number of that stallion's foals are born there at the farm, and the early training is done there. They may go on to be owned and raced by different people, but may all have had the same "not so good" first experience, and may show similar behaviors that get contributed to "mental" issues. Now that stallion is in question for passing on mental problems. It may be compounded by the fact that maybe the farm that stands the stallion also raced him themselves and also started his training the same way, so the stallion himself showed similar behaviors.
I am not saying that genetics can't play a part, in fact I believe that it does. I think it's about half genetics and half environment, give or take depending on the horse and the situration, and the environment portion often gets overlooked.
Since the "natural horsemanship" movement has taken off again, many people with excellent intentions watch a tape or read a book and then try these methods thinking they are doing what's best for their horse, but just like any other training method if your timing is not just right or if you don't fully understand the theory behind the training, you can mess a horse up just as easily using these methods as you can using any other method. I think people tend to not think about that as much with natural horsemanship because most of the early phases are done on the ground, so people think they don't have to be as knowledgeable or as good at training as they do with other methods where you're on the horse's back... but the whole process is based on subtle cues and body language, which most humans already don't have a great handle on, and if you aren't really careful you can send the wrong message when you think you're sending the correct one.
Just my personal opinion and two cents worth...
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: ab
Date: 12/22/2003 6:17 am
I have seen two Belong To Me fillies who were both mean. One of them was so anti social that she would just curl up in her stall most of the time. If she did stick her nose out the door it was because she was looking for another horse to bite. It's a small sample, but I have to wonder about the sire.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: LJ
Date: 12/22/2003 6:32 am
There are certainly some horses that seem more prone to passing on behavioral traits than others.. The one that comes to mind for me is With Approval, they can have talant but can be pretty wacky too.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: strideaway
Date: 12/22/2003 8:18 am
It always amazes me that the stallion is blamed for bad behaviour and never the mare.I'm with Roguelet on the horses upbringing playing a part. C.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Roguelet
Date: 12/22/2003 8:42 am
Very true... if you go with the "half is genetics and half is environment" theory, then you also have to realize that only half of the genetic half comes from the stallion, the other half of the genetic half stems from the mare!
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: LJ
Date: 12/22/2003 8:47 am
I think it's a numbers thing. A mare can maybe have 10 offspring and very often, no matter who the stallion is these foals do share traits that can be attributed to the mare. While any given stallion can have hundreds of offspring, when you see similar traits in them I attribute them to that stallion.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Bill from WA
Date: 12/22/2003 8:56 am
The great mare Canterbury Pilgrim was vicious (she was eventually banned from the starting gate). The only living creature that she tolerated was a gelding named Flare Up. Her son, Chaucer, inherited much of his dam's foul temperament.
Bill
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Mahubah
Date: 12/22/2003 5:27 pm
The notorious Hastings was another one that got his temperament from Mama -- his dam, *Cinderella, was a great producer but thoroughly evil-tempered by all accounts, while his sire Spendthrift actually had a reputation as a pretty sweet-natured stallion.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Roguelet
Date: 12/22/2003 6:20 pm
On a similar thought, I wonder how much of a dam-inherited behavior is actual genetics and how much is learned from being raised by that mare? It would be an interesting study if there was ever any way set it up.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Ribot
Date: 12/22/2003 8:34 pm
I'm a firm believer that foals pick up on the dam's attitude and rank within groups of horses. I'm good friends with Craig Banderoff of Denali Stud and he uses Serena's Song as an example for a few things, one of which is a mare that runs the show. Apparently this little champion was quite viscious on the track and its carried over to life on the farm. I'll never forget him saying the only time you dont have to watch your fingers and your back around her is when she's foaling.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 9:48 am
Con Game, dam of Seeking The Gold, is a nasty one who who passed it on to STG.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 9:57 am
Vampire 1889 (Galopin x Irony) was so viscious she killed her first foal immediately after birth. Her son Flying Fox, winner of the 2000 Guineas, Epson Derby and St. Leger, also inherited her temper and had to be taken out of training.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Heather T.
Date: 12/23/2003 12:16 pm
Northern Dancer and Halo were known to have gotten some difficult horses. Interestingly, they have the same second dam, Almahmoud. I've often wondered if she was the source of their temperament.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Nancy T. (12.16.102.---)
Date: 12/23/2003 12:42 pm
I heard halo described once as the most phsychotic horse that ever walked. (on espn weekly racing program) has he passed on this poor temper? how is Devil his Due and his get?
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Bill from WA
Date: 12/23/2003 1:06 pm
Almahmoud was not a mean individual, but was very nervous, high strung and difficult to handle. She passed this trait on to many of her offspring.
Bill
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 1:51 pm
Devil His Due is said to be very gentle.
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RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Rick (199.0.136.---)
Date: 12/23/2003 1:56 pm
I once read that Menetrier needed 3 men to lead him. Two to hold the chain and a third with a gun to shot him if he got loose.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Bill from WA
Date: 12/23/2003 2:03 pm
Halo kind of came about his nasty temperament naturally. His sire Hail To Reason was very high strung and flighty, and his maternal granddam had much the same temperament. Nearco was a very headstrong and self willed horse, and Ribot's sire, Tenerani, used to climb the walls of his stall, and could only be calmed by a companion sheep. Tesio hated Tenerani, and sold him the instant he got a decent offer. He didn't much care for Ribot's dam either. Speaking of Halo, have any of you found that the Halo's have been cribbers? At one time Halo was scheduled to be sold to England but the deal fell through becase of his cribbing habit.
Bill
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Jessi P
Date: 12/23/2003 2:12 pm
Conte di Savoya was/is reportedly a savage, supposedly why he was sold...... when he was sold at Keeneland he had 2 of his OWN handlers on him, instead of the Keeneland ring handlers, the first time this ever happened. He is standing in Ill now, his daughter that I had (that I gave away a few weeks ago) is just plain evil. She went to be a project for a boys' home.... I imagine she is will try to reduce the orphan population.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Sunday Silence
Date: 12/23/2003 3:15 pm
I heard Criminal Type became unmanageable when he was sent to Japan.
A horse named Thady Quill was said to be horrible to work around.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Krista
Date: 12/23/2003 3:16 pm
I have encountered quite a few Halo offspring (even grandsons) that crib.
Regarding Serena's Song, I got to work with Serena's Tune who was as sweet as could be... until the day she foaled... That morning she was cranky and mean... and was quite resentful towards her foal, who ended up being put on a nursemare.
I truely believe that bad handling creates the majority of horses with 'bad attitudes', and there are very few that are actually truely evil
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Alibhai's Alibar
Date: 12/23/2003 3:31 pm
Tabasco Cat supposedly throws some mean babies- but he's quite a handful himself, right?
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Crystal
Date: 12/23/2003 5:26 pm
NY stallion Signal Tap was a mean one as well, and a couple of his fillies we had at the track were mean as hell. Good runners, but mean.. We had them behind screens after they grabbed a few hotwalkers, and myself as well.
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Mahubah
Date: 12/23/2003 5:48 pm
Funny that Almahmoud was such a nerve case; maybe it came through the dam's side. I remember reading an obit on *Mahmoud that mentioned him as being absolutely gentle. Sort of like Silver Charm; they say he's the one at his farm they can let the kids pat and have pictures taken with (under supervision, of course!).
Reply To This Message
RE: Bad Attitudes
Author: Christine
Date: 12/23/2003 7:40 pm
I have to go with 1/2 of it can be put on the dam as well as the sire. I only had one really bad one I had to send to auction to get rid of her.......couldn't sell her or give her away...and got all of 500.00 for her. Her sire was a sweet horse and dam was mean as hell.......lunged out and bit more than a few helpers in her barn as they were sweeping the aisles. I had every expert look at her (vet, dentist, chiropractor) to rule out a physical problem & no one could find anything wrong with her. I've heard those stories about Halo.....don't have any Halo mares myself, but do have 1 coming to be bred to my colt this summer. We'll see how she does! Fortunately my elderly Hail To Reason mare (o/o an Axe mare........anyone know what he's like?) is very sweet. Cinchy/girthy with a saddle, but that's about it. My stud colt is luckily an absolute doll to handle. Hardly know he's not a gelding at home. (Gets a bit excited away from home, but is getting a lot better with experience there.) Most of his manly relatives (Roanoke, Rock Point and Silver Charm's sire:Silver Buck) I think have pretty good minds.......which has a lot to do with why I picked him as a stallion candidate before he was old enough for the old hormones to kick in and see what I was really getting.....! Fortunately I didn't know about his dam when I bought him. She ended up in the barn of someone I know and they said she is "professional handler only" material. (She is the one by Rock Point.... and he has had a lot of hunter babies...so they have to have some sort of manners.) She must be fluke or badly handled when she was young or also had a mean momma.
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RE: Halo
Author: Jessi P
Date: 12/24/2003 7:15 am
I have a page on my website with a couple pics from when I saw Halo shortly before his death, with some comments from the stallion manager.. someone might find it interesting. http://members.aol.com/jesspzro/halo.html
Tenerani sire of Ribot
At the real Dormello in Italy a caretaker was asked about Ribot's disposition, and he said he was aggressive, but not malicious. He showed the breeding books and notations from Ribot, Donatello, Tenerani, Dante and Nearco. The nasty horse at Dormello was Ribot's sire, Tenerani. They still have a huge cargo net that that hangs inside his stall that was in place to keep him from rearing and striking. They said without the net in place at 6' high across his whole stall, that he would climb the walls all day and come after anyone that opened his door like Silver or Fury or something.
(from a post on the Texas Thoroughbred forum)
(from a post on the Texas Thoroughbred forum)
[quote="louis finochio"]Nearctic and Amerigo are two that were bad dudes.
Nearctic was almost gelded because he was bordering on a rogue. If he was gelded that would have eliminated the Northern Dancer dynasty that we are seeing today.
Amerigo was so bad that they had to walk him with a special groom that could handle him, as a green hot walker would be ate alive by Amerigo.
Amerigo had to be blind folded before being loaded in the gate.[/quote]
This Amerigo was he an argentine bred the Glen Hilde had for a while? I took care of a horse just like that BIG sobino chestnut, would pull the tie chain out of the wall and use it as a wepon aggainst you, needless to say I never tied him after that but getting someone to hold him so he didn't chew me up was difficult at best.
Nearctic was almost gelded because he was bordering on a rogue. If he was gelded that would have eliminated the Northern Dancer dynasty that we are seeing today.
Amerigo was so bad that they had to walk him with a special groom that could handle him, as a green hot walker would be ate alive by Amerigo.
Amerigo had to be blind folded before being loaded in the gate.[/quote]
This Amerigo was he an argentine bred the Glen Hilde had for a while? I took care of a horse just like that BIG sobino chestnut, would pull the tie chain out of the wall and use it as a wepon aggainst you, needless to say I never tied him after that but getting someone to hold him so he didn't chew me up was difficult at best.
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louis finochio
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AMERIGO (GB) ch. H 1955
Nearco---Sanlinea, by Precipitation
Amerigo made 46 starts---14 wins---earned $ 419, 171.00
Angel Penna trained Amerigo who was a Hall of Fame trainer and a good friend of mine. Thanks for the memories Amerigo and Angel Penna.
I remember when Amerigo was racing at SA when I was in my teens.
Nearco---Sanlinea, by Precipitation
Amerigo made 46 starts---14 wins---earned $ 419, 171.00
Angel Penna trained Amerigo who was a Hall of Fame trainer and a good friend of mine. Thanks for the memories Amerigo and Angel Penna.
I remember when Amerigo was racing at SA when I was in my teens.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
nferro9925 wrote:Going way back - Man O'War's grandsire Hastings was very nasty. Many of his offspring had a version of his temper.
MOW's full sister Masda got his temper as well.
I know one stallion WAS gelded after a season or two in stud becuase he savaged a groom, and (old age here) I cannot remmeber his name.
I keep thinking it iwas Fantastic Light, but it isn't, but another one that starts with "F"?
Discover was rumored to have been temperd.
The horse you're thinking of is Festival of Light, a son of A. P. Indy out ot the Danzig mare Aurora, making him a half to the sire Arch. He was gelded after his first season for savaging a farm employee.
Nu
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roving boy
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Silver Ghost is very dangerous because he is a "sleeper" - 99 days out of 100 he will be like an old hunter, but on the 100th he will suddenly go wild without any warning. At Vinery (in the breeding shed) he suddenly grabbed the stallion manager by the shoulder, threw him down on the ground and started stomping him. He was beaten off with twitches. Stallion manager suffered broken collarbone and multiple bruises. Ever since then SG has worn a muzzle.
Silver Ghost's 3/4 brother, Prospector's Music, was also tough, but was tough every day. Not as dangerous.
Southern Halo wore a muzzle and was always handled by a groom carrying a short bat while at Ashford.
Turn And Count was very tough - on more than one occasion he got loose in the breeding shed and bred the mare by himself after running all the humans out.
Silver Ghost's 3/4 brother, Prospector's Music, was also tough, but was tough every day. Not as dangerous.
Southern Halo wore a muzzle and was always handled by a groom carrying a short bat while at Ashford.
Turn And Count was very tough - on more than one occasion he got loose in the breeding shed and bred the mare by himself after running all the humans out.
Roving Boy
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Sylvie Hebert
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Grey Sovereign was so bad they retired him from racing he was attacking other contestants,i believe he is in the pedigree of a lot of those grey fillies my owners keep sending me....
The sport and industry survive not only because of the champions that are remembered forever but also because of the losers that are so easy to forget...
Head for Heights was a really bad one, he took an arm out of the shoulder from his groom, they shot him afterwards. I was having a filly by him out of an daughter from Ahoonora, she was the most petable, loveble horse in the world. Only she couldn,t run and was having a turned
peddlebone after arriving from Eire to the Netherlands hauling on a large horsevan during 56 hours. I was a regular visitor in Eire that season, while she was bordered at her breeders place in her yearling year.
Sending her to the little stud in the sky( 2 year old), as was having also" nervractilar" disease. Don,t know how to write it.
peddlebone after arriving from Eire to the Netherlands hauling on a large horsevan during 56 hours. I was a regular visitor in Eire that season, while she was bordered at her breeders place in her yearling year.
Sending her to the little stud in the sky( 2 year old), as was having also" nervractilar" disease. Don,t know how to write it.
