Songandaprayer gets Boost

[austique]

Songandaprayer had been bumped to $35,000 while Successful Appeal will remain at $25,000. I think Songandaprayer deserved a boost, but that seems a little steep.

[Ill-bred]

I agree, but it isn't that unreasonable considering how well his babies have been selling.

[roving boy]

Consider not only how they have sold, but also how they have run.

Were it not for the What A Song tragedy the BC JUvenile would be a East Coast West Coast showdown between two sons of Songandaprayer (He's Got Grit and What A Song)!

I think $35,000 will find him booked full before year end.

[FOS]

hi austique

$35,000 for Songandaprayer...

...I expect that the majority owners of the horse had a lot to say about that BIG stud fee bump...I don't expect that was a Walmac induced decision.

Walmac traditionally is much more conservative than that...knowing that stud fees are easy to increase but sometimes difficult to decrease (if and when things cool down as they often do) when the phone isn't ringing so often.

The $35k surprises me at this time...but I must say, he is a nice horse.

Respectfully

[LSB]

Consider not only how they have sold, but also how they have run.

Were it not for the What A Song tragedy the BC JUvenile would be a East Coast West Coast showdown between two sons of Songandaprayer (He's Got Grit and What A Song)!

I think $35,000 will find him booked full before year end.

Yes, but you can't discount the fact that the reason there is no showdown is because one of those horses broke down in July of his two year old year. It's not news to anyone that there's unsoundness in that line. So far what Songandaprayer has shown us is that he can produce flashy brilliance that may or may not stand up to the rigors of training.

[austique]

I would have to agree with LSB about the unsoundness factor. My main issue is that I'm always a little suspect of huge fee increases for first crop sires. You are getting a very small sample of progeny in the first year. You have no idea whether those that ran well as 2yos will carry their form as older horses. I think there is a very real chance his foals will not like distance. I can see an increase for him, but an increase of mor than double the original fee is a little much.

[roving boy]

Not that I am a fan of current stallion pricing, but to accomplish what he has from his 1st book of mares out Florida probably justifies the fee. More to the point is that breeders are willing to pay it!

To echo LSB's sentiments but spin them somewhat, the unsoundness of this sireline kept me from using Buddha, an excellent example of unsoundness himself. The fact that Songandaprayer made 8 starts rather than 4, and is a 1/2 to several hard-knocking stakes horses makes him look better than some. And of course, commercial breeders don't care about racing

[LSB]

Hey roving boy, I'm a commercial breeder. Or at least I aim to be.

Don't forget, we have to race what we can't sell.

[louis finochio]

When you compare Successful Appeal whose AEI is 3.14---CI is 1.21 to Songandaprayer whose AEI is 1.78---CI is 1.63 its a landslide victory for SA.

You cant compare the complete stats for both stallions as SAP has had fewer foals.

[FOS]

hi guys

I still sense that the BIG stud fee increase for Songandaprayer (from $10,000 to $35,000) was driven by the majority ownership interest of the horse...not Walmac.

There has already been an attempt to attract foal shares (for 2006) to the horse...that might have been a motivation for the significant stud fee bump.

Again...he's a nice horse and can get a handsome individual...but he'll have to do a lot more as a racehorse sire to justify the $35k as far as I'm concerned.

Respectfully

[roving boy]

FOS, I am not sure that I understand your post. Why would "an attempt to attract foal shares" drive the fee up? Usually foal shares are offered when one is trying to increase book size and one is willing to "deal" (i.e. Point Given for the last 2 years).

If foal shares are available I would like to know as I have a number of folks that would be interested.

Walmac had a lunch for agents Tuesday and showed both horses. Almost everyone I spoke to evidenced more interest in Song than SAP. I am not sure that the people remember that Closing Argument (2nd KY Derby) is a son of SAP. Also I think the "big horse" factor is driving fees more than consistency/percentages - probably has for years.

[LSB]

roving boy, were you at that lunch? If so, we may have to 'fess up to who we are and say hi because I was there too.

When you look at the two horses physically, Songandaprayer is certainly an easier "sell". If you're trying to produce a correct foal that can go through the sales, Song is going to fit a lot more mares.

And of course, he's the new kid on the block. That generates a lot of interest too. Right this moment, his star is rising which Sucessful Appeal's is falling somewhat. Then again, that has much to do with where the two horses are in their careers. This time next year, things may look very different.

[petersd]

Well, that makes three of us who were at the Walmac show.
I have to throw my two cents in and say Song was the more impressive looking of the two. I last saw him at the track, and he's matured VERY nicely. The one thought I had looking at him was "massive." I wouldn't be sending any big mares to him though.
On a side note, I thought the handlers response when Song managed to wrap the lead shank around his foreleg and back into a hedge was nicely done.

[roving boy]

Agreed - he is a pretty horse and is very big! The groom did a very good job with him. Interesting how SAP did not get excited at all - could have cared less about the crowd, etc.

[petersd]

Did SAP strike you as a little narrow based? I loved his shoulder and hindquarters, but he looked liked he dwindled down from there.