Folks:
I own a season in During, a son of Cherokee Run and a second year Claiborne stallion I happen to like very much.
I have an opportunity to lease a NJ mare "Quick to Blame"...a hard knocking minor stakes winner who has had several allowance progeny but who hasnt been bred too much for her age.
This matchup presents an intriguing "double cross " to Knights Daughter and Princequillo (she is a Round Table line mare) . Does anyone have research or insight on the successful or unsuccessfil use of this pattern?
Thanks for your comments...
Opinions on inbreeding to Knights Daughter/ Princequillo
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn, Diane
My APR is an '03 and shows only three offspring for this mare; she may have later ones. However, given her age, if her last foal was in 2000, I, personally, would hesitate. That being said, I got a mare last year, also an '88 model, a minor stakes winner of $194K, whose last, and only, live foal was in '99. She is due to deliver March 11 and So Far So Good..
Quick To Blame's half brother by Big Spruce is the lone "big" horse in this mare's three generations; if you are breeding to sell the offspring, the page won't be inspiring.
Quick To Blame's half brother by Big Spruce is the lone "big" horse in this mare's three generations; if you are breeding to sell the offspring, the page won't be inspiring.
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Here is QUICK TO BLAMES.....produce as of 2005 APR. She showing having a COLT in 2005 in the Jockey Clubs registry.
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2005
QUICK TO BLAME, 1988, Jolie Jo- Becky Greene by Shecky Greene.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1995 Just Winging It,B,c,Manlove 2 9 4 0 2 27,200 ( 87) 1.31
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 0 0 4,950 ( 67)
North America Dirt Sprints 7 3 0 1 21,650 ( 87)
North America Dirt Routes 2 1 0 1 5,550 ( 71)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 0 8,025 ( 87)
DP = 11-5-8-5-1 DI = 2.00 CD = 0.67 AWD = 6.58
1996 Quick To The Top,B,f,Top Snob Unraced
DP = 3-1-7-7-0 DI = 0.71 CD = 0.00
2000 He's My Idol,B,c,Northern Idol 3 16 2 1 3 41,165 ( 80) 1.01
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 0 0 675 ( 66)
North America Dirt Sprints 15 2 1 3 40,940 ( 80)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 225 ( 30)
DP = 3-1-3-5-0 DI = 0.85 CD = 0.17 AWD = 6.25
2001 Not To Blame,B,f,Not For Love 1 7 0 1 0 5,350 ( 54) 0.24
North America Dirt Sprints 7 0 1 0 5,350 ( 54)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 460 ( 46)
DP = 11-3-11-5-0 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.67
2002 Unnamed,c,Malibu Moon (Pending)
DP = 7-2-6-5-0 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.55
I disagree with the page not showing all that well. And if you are going partners on this mare and she is bred to the right sire who is commercial and the foals LOOK the part....there is NO reason the foal cannot be a Stakes horse or sell well above profit......you may want to go back to what worked for her BIG SPRUCE brother
QUICK TO BLAME and her siblings
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2005
BECKY GREENE, 1977, Shecky Greene- Turtle Creek by Hillary.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1984 Jobeck,B,f,Jolie Jo 3 23 0 7 2 12,208 0.49
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 1 0 1,840
North America Dirt Sprints 23 0 7 2 12,208
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 1 0 1,699
DP = 4-7-5-10-0 DI = 1.08 CD = 0.19
1984 Jo Becky,B,f,Jolie Jo 1 1 0 0 0 240 0.19
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 240
DP = 4-7-5-10-0 DI = 1.08 CD = 0.19
1985 Suave Sam,B,c,Regal And Royal 3 39 11 4 3 43,159 0.92
North America 2 YO Record 4 1 0 0 5,850
North America Dirt Sprints 17 6 0 0 17,244
North America Dirt Routes 22 5 4 3 25,915
North America Muddy/Sloppy 7 2 1 0 8,455
DP = 5-7-12-0-4 DI = 1.80 CD = 0.32 AWD = 7.45
1986 Barren
1987 Foal Died
1988 QUICK TO BLAME,B,f,Jolie Jo 3 29 10 4 4 117,215 ( 96) 3.49
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 73)
North America Dirt Sprints 28 10 4 4 117,215 ( 96)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 1 0 1 20,555 ( 96)
DP = 4-7-5-10-0 DI = 1.08 CD = 0.19 AWD = 6.00
At 4 Won Quincentennial Breeders' Cup S. (O) (25,000)
1989 Easy Prospector,B,c,Great Prospector Unraced
DP = 11-6-15-0-0 DI = 3.27 CD = 0.88
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMSEP 1990 312 $1,500 $1,500 ylg ( 1/ 1) $1,000
1990 MIGHTY AVANTI,Dkbbr,g,Big Spruce 4 31 5 12 3 293,710 (105) 7.09
North America Dirt Sprints 6 1 4 1 33,500 ( 98)
North America Dirt Routes 25 4 8 2 260,210 (105)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 5 0 2 1 71,150 (105)
DP = 2-4-11-5-4 DI = 0.79 CD = -0.19 AWD = 7.70
At 3 2nd Everglades S. -L (50,000), 3rd Ohio Derby -G2 (300,000), Winter
Quarters S. (O) (40,000), Accordant Handicap (R) (O) (32,000)
At 4 Won Broad Brush S. (O) (35,000), James A. Bradley Handicap (R) (O)
(30,000), 2nd Kentucky Cup Classic S. -L (376,000), Lincroft Handicap
(R) (O) (35,000)
At 5 2nd Tampa Bay Breeders' Cup Handicap -L (77,100)
1991 Freeze Jimmy,B,c,It's Freezing 3 22 4 3 1 23,455 ( 89) 0.69
North America Dirt Sprints 14 3 1 1 18,725 ( 83)
North America Dirt Routes 8 1 2 0 4,730 ( 89)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 1 0 0 1,920 ( 83)
DP = 4-7-7-0-0 DI = 4.14 CD = 0.83 AWD = 6.95
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1992 1574 $17,000 $26,825 ylg (14/18) $20,000
1992 Have Faith,B,g,Caveat 6 59 5 8 11 107,232 ( 92) 1.31
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 120 ( 36)
North America Dirt Sprints 15 0 0 2 9,074 ( 79)
North America Dirt Routes 43 5 8 8 98,038 ( 92)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 7 1 1 1 11,667 ( 84)
DP = 4-8-7-0-1 DI = 3.44 CD = 0.70 AWD = 8.33
1993 Joseph Owen,B,c,Owens Troupe Unraced
DP = 7-5-6-0-0 DI = 5.00 CD = 1.06
1994 Barren
1995 Aztec Gold,B,f,Gold Legend 3 11 2 1 1 41,550 ( 86) 1.73
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0
North America Dirt Sprints 10 2 1 1 41,550 ( 86)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 1 3,725 ( 75)
DP = 10-3-9-0-0 DI = 3.89 CD = 1.05 AWD = 6.00
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMSEP 1996 281 $10,000 $16,356 ylg ( 8/16) $2,500
1996 Becky Slater,B,f,Allen's Prospect 2 15 0 3 1 20,877 ( 77) 0.58
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 1 0 8,830 ( 77)
North America Dirt Sprints 15 0 3 1 20,877 ( 77)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 800 ( 63)
DP = 10-7-11-0-0 DI = 4.09 CD = 0.96
You also have QUICK TO BLAME who is a SW....and there a some nice horses in her 3rd dam as well. A SW and SPW...and maybe some cousins
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2005
QUICK TO BLAME, 1988, Jolie Jo- Becky Greene by Shecky Greene.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1995 Just Winging It,B,c,Manlove 2 9 4 0 2 27,200 ( 87) 1.31
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 0 0 4,950 ( 67)
North America Dirt Sprints 7 3 0 1 21,650 ( 87)
North America Dirt Routes 2 1 0 1 5,550 ( 71)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 1 0 0 8,025 ( 87)
DP = 11-5-8-5-1 DI = 2.00 CD = 0.67 AWD = 6.58
1996 Quick To The Top,B,f,Top Snob Unraced
DP = 3-1-7-7-0 DI = 0.71 CD = 0.00
2000 He's My Idol,B,c,Northern Idol 3 16 2 1 3 41,165 ( 80) 1.01
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 0 0 675 ( 66)
North America Dirt Sprints 15 2 1 3 40,940 ( 80)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 225 ( 30)
DP = 3-1-3-5-0 DI = 0.85 CD = 0.17 AWD = 6.25
2001 Not To Blame,B,f,Not For Love 1 7 0 1 0 5,350 ( 54) 0.24
North America Dirt Sprints 7 0 1 0 5,350 ( 54)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 460 ( 46)
DP = 11-3-11-5-0 DI = 1.86 CD = 0.67
2002 Unnamed,c,Malibu Moon (Pending)
DP = 7-2-6-5-0 DI = 1.50 CD = 0.55
I disagree with the page not showing all that well. And if you are going partners on this mare and she is bred to the right sire who is commercial and the foals LOOK the part....there is NO reason the foal cannot be a Stakes horse or sell well above profit......you may want to go back to what worked for her BIG SPRUCE brother
QUICK TO BLAME and her siblings
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2005
BECKY GREENE, 1977, Shecky Greene- Turtle Creek by Hillary.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1984 Jobeck,B,f,Jolie Jo 3 23 0 7 2 12,208 0.49
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 1 0 1,840
North America Dirt Sprints 23 0 7 2 12,208
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 0 1 0 1,699
DP = 4-7-5-10-0 DI = 1.08 CD = 0.19
1984 Jo Becky,B,f,Jolie Jo 1 1 0 0 0 240 0.19
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 0 240
DP = 4-7-5-10-0 DI = 1.08 CD = 0.19
1985 Suave Sam,B,c,Regal And Royal 3 39 11 4 3 43,159 0.92
North America 2 YO Record 4 1 0 0 5,850
North America Dirt Sprints 17 6 0 0 17,244
North America Dirt Routes 22 5 4 3 25,915
North America Muddy/Sloppy 7 2 1 0 8,455
DP = 5-7-12-0-4 DI = 1.80 CD = 0.32 AWD = 7.45
1986 Barren
1987 Foal Died
1988 QUICK TO BLAME,B,f,Jolie Jo 3 29 10 4 4 117,215 ( 96) 3.49
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 73)
North America Dirt Sprints 28 10 4 4 117,215 ( 96)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 1 0 1 20,555 ( 96)
DP = 4-7-5-10-0 DI = 1.08 CD = 0.19 AWD = 6.00
At 4 Won Quincentennial Breeders' Cup S. (O) (25,000)
1989 Easy Prospector,B,c,Great Prospector Unraced
DP = 11-6-15-0-0 DI = 3.27 CD = 0.88
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMSEP 1990 312 $1,500 $1,500 ylg ( 1/ 1) $1,000
1990 MIGHTY AVANTI,Dkbbr,g,Big Spruce 4 31 5 12 3 293,710 (105) 7.09
North America Dirt Sprints 6 1 4 1 33,500 ( 98)
North America Dirt Routes 25 4 8 2 260,210 (105)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 5 0 2 1 71,150 (105)
DP = 2-4-11-5-4 DI = 0.79 CD = -0.19 AWD = 7.70
At 3 2nd Everglades S. -L (50,000), 3rd Ohio Derby -G2 (300,000), Winter
Quarters S. (O) (40,000), Accordant Handicap (R) (O) (32,000)
At 4 Won Broad Brush S. (O) (35,000), James A. Bradley Handicap (R) (O)
(30,000), 2nd Kentucky Cup Classic S. -L (376,000), Lincroft Handicap
(R) (O) (35,000)
At 5 2nd Tampa Bay Breeders' Cup Handicap -L (77,100)
1991 Freeze Jimmy,B,c,It's Freezing 3 22 4 3 1 23,455 ( 89) 0.69
North America Dirt Sprints 14 3 1 1 18,725 ( 83)
North America Dirt Routes 8 1 2 0 4,730 ( 89)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 1 0 0 1,920 ( 83)
DP = 4-7-7-0-0 DI = 4.14 CD = 0.83 AWD = 6.95
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1992 1574 $17,000 $26,825 ylg (14/18) $20,000
1992 Have Faith,B,g,Caveat 6 59 5 8 11 107,232 ( 92) 1.31
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 120 ( 36)
North America Dirt Sprints 15 0 0 2 9,074 ( 79)
North America Dirt Routes 43 5 8 8 98,038 ( 92)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 7 1 1 1 11,667 ( 84)
DP = 4-8-7-0-1 DI = 3.44 CD = 0.70 AWD = 8.33
1993 Joseph Owen,B,c,Owens Troupe Unraced
DP = 7-5-6-0-0 DI = 5.00 CD = 1.06
1994 Barren
1995 Aztec Gold,B,f,Gold Legend 3 11 2 1 1 41,550 ( 86) 1.73
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0
North America Dirt Sprints 10 2 1 1 41,550 ( 86)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 1 3,725 ( 75)
DP = 10-3-9-0-0 DI = 3.89 CD = 1.05 AWD = 6.00
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTMSEP 1996 281 $10,000 $16,356 ylg ( 8/16) $2,500
1996 Becky Slater,B,f,Allen's Prospect 2 15 0 3 1 20,877 ( 77) 0.58
North America 2 YO Record 3 0 1 0 8,830 ( 77)
North America Dirt Sprints 15 0 3 1 20,877 ( 77)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 2 0 0 0 800 ( 63)
DP = 10-7-11-0-0 DI = 4.09 CD = 0.96
Quick To Blame's half brother by Big Spruce is the lone "big" horse in this mare's three generations; if you are breeding to sell the offspring, the page won't be inspiring.
You also have QUICK TO BLAME who is a SW....and there a some nice horses in her 3rd dam as well. A SW and SPW...and maybe some cousins
Last edited by Nijinsky on Mon Jan 30, 2006 4:54 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I try not to listen to the voices in my head.
But sometimes they have such good ideas
But sometimes they have such good ideas
This matchup presents an intriguing "double cross " to Knights Daughter and Princequillo (she is a Round Table line mare) . Does anyone have research or insight on the successful or unsuccessfil use of this pattern?
I do not think you can ever go wrong doubling or even trippling up on this line.
I myself own a Stakes mare who is
4S X 4D ROUND TABLE
5S X 5D PRINCEQUILLO
5S X 5D KNIGHT'S DAUGHTER
I try not to listen to the voices in my head.
But sometimes they have such good ideas
But sometimes they have such good ideas
Here is Turtle Creek, the third dam
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003
TURTLE CREEK, 1967, Hillary- Polly Bashaw by Pasha.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1973 So Stylish,f,Lucky Debonair 4 18 5 4 3 16,938 1.86
DP = 1-4-7-0-0 DI = 2.43 CD = 0.50
1974 Mr. Chauvenist,c,*Gallant Man 4 40 4 4 3 16,146 0.59
DP = 9-14-6-7-0 DI = 2.60 CD = 0.69
1977 Becky Greene,f,Shecky Greene 2 13 1 3 1 14,730 1.26
DP = 5-6-9-0-0 DI = 3.44 CD = 0.80
1979 Shaky Shecky,f,Shecky Greene Unraced
DP = 5-6-9-0-0 DI = 3.44 CD = 0.80
1980 Cooter Creek,f,Cerf Volant 3 20 1 1 4 9,016 0.46
DP = 2-5-3-0-0 DI = 5.67 CD = 0.90 AWD = 6.00
1981 Mckee's Rock,f,Dancing Champ 1 2 0 0 0 0 0.00
DP = 3-6-9-4-0 DI = 1.59 CD = 0.36
I don't see those "nice" horses you refer to. I'm sorry to sound so jaded but I have seen good looking offspring from real "quality" mares with real blacktype (stakes $40K or over) and graded stakes in the family sell for their value, while mares like this one have offspring that end up in the rummage sales, no matter what stallion they use.
Regarding that inbreeding question, I believe the question was more reflective of the poster wanting to know if that kind of inbreeding was successful. Was you mare with that breeding a G1 winner? That would be reflective of the inbreeding "working."
Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2003
TURTLE CREEK, 1967, Hillary- Polly Bashaw by Pasha.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1973 So Stylish,f,Lucky Debonair 4 18 5 4 3 16,938 1.86
DP = 1-4-7-0-0 DI = 2.43 CD = 0.50
1974 Mr. Chauvenist,c,*Gallant Man 4 40 4 4 3 16,146 0.59
DP = 9-14-6-7-0 DI = 2.60 CD = 0.69
1977 Becky Greene,f,Shecky Greene 2 13 1 3 1 14,730 1.26
DP = 5-6-9-0-0 DI = 3.44 CD = 0.80
1979 Shaky Shecky,f,Shecky Greene Unraced
DP = 5-6-9-0-0 DI = 3.44 CD = 0.80
1980 Cooter Creek,f,Cerf Volant 3 20 1 1 4 9,016 0.46
DP = 2-5-3-0-0 DI = 5.67 CD = 0.90 AWD = 6.00
1981 Mckee's Rock,f,Dancing Champ 1 2 0 0 0 0 0.00
DP = 3-6-9-4-0 DI = 1.59 CD = 0.36
I don't see those "nice" horses you refer to. I'm sorry to sound so jaded but I have seen good looking offspring from real "quality" mares with real blacktype (stakes $40K or over) and graded stakes in the family sell for their value, while mares like this one have offspring that end up in the rummage sales, no matter what stallion they use.
Regarding that inbreeding question, I believe the question was more reflective of the poster wanting to know if that kind of inbreeding was successful. Was you mare with that breeding a G1 winner? That would be reflective of the inbreeding "working."
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
Your right Madelyn....TURTLE CREEK will be the third Dam 
. But QUICK TO BLAME....will be the first dam showing BLACK TYPE and that she is a producer. Then you will have more black type under 2nd dam weak on the third and MAYBE some more black type if they ad the 4th. It still looks good....it wouldn't if the dam herself wasn't a STAKES WINNER....and a producer. The sire DURING could run
We do not know where this guy plans on selling any foals OR if he even plans on selling he may want to keep it to run!
You would be suprised what people will pay for a yearling out of a SWing mare bred to the right sire. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this family it isn't as bad as you think.
. But QUICK TO BLAME....will be the first dam showing BLACK TYPE and that she is a producer. Then you will have more black type under 2nd dam weak on the third and MAYBE some more black type if they ad the 4th. It still looks good....it wouldn't if the dam herself wasn't a STAKES WINNER....and a producer. The sire DURING could run
We do not know where this guy plans on selling any foals OR if he even plans on selling he may want to keep it to run!
You would be suprised what people will pay for a yearling out of a SWing mare bred to the right sire. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss this family it isn't as bad as you think.
I try not to listen to the voices in my head.
But sometimes they have such good ideas
But sometimes they have such good ideas
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louis finochio
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