Tiger Ridge

[sprucie]

Any thoughts on him? How well are his foals selling at auction?

[jagger]

Weanling med. 17k, yearling med. 25k, 2yo med 42K. His biggest winner to date is only 300k. A major underachiever for a Storm Cat son with double copy mares on the dam side for 3 generations. An example of close inbreeding (Secretariat 2 x 3) that hasn't worked, so far.

[ef]

I think he's done quite well with some pretty blah mares. His AEI is 1.51, CI 1.18. He can get you a solid type on both turf and dirt.

[rudydee]

Check out www.thoroughbredreview.com/stallionwatch.htm

Tiger Ridge is listed as a 7,500-10,000 Best Value

[jagger]

I couldn't get your referenced site, RudyDee, but I think you are referring to American Thoroughbred Review. This is an excellent site and should be mandatory reading, especially for the novice. I do agree with their assessment - that he is a good value. I just thought he might have done better with his excellent pedigree. Eavesdropper and Mingun also have similarly excellent pedigree and are around the same price. They are younger stallions and yet to prove themselves one way or another.

[kimberley mine]

I couldn't get your referenced site, RudyDee, but I think you are referring to American Thoroughbred Review. This is an excellent site and should be mandatory reading, especially for the novice. I do agree with their assessment - that he is a good value. I just thought he might have done better with his excellent pedigree. Eavesdropper and Mingun also have similarly excellent pedigree and are around the same price. They are younger stallions and yet to prove themselves one way or another.

The biggest problem that I have with their best and worst values list is more with the worst values. Of the ten worst values in the $10000 and less/$5000 and less categories, five were stallions whose oldest foals were only two, and of those five, at least two (Albert the Great and King Cugat) were the kind that one wouldn't expect to burn up the tracks as juveniles. Goes along with what Madelyn said in another thread, about deeming stallions useless when their first get are only juveniles.

[jagger]

Kimberley mine,

We need to understand what ATR is trying to do and that is to advise prospective investors how most wisely to invest their money.

Let's take King Cugat for example and compare him to a horse that I have never heard of and just took off the TT sire list, Lite the Fuse who stands for 3.5k. Just a few comparisons taken from the equineline pages with the first numbers being that of KC and the second numbers being LTF. Starters/foals of RA: 17%/63%. Stakes winners/foals of RA: 1%/3%. Wins/start: 10%/16%. Placings/start: 18%/28%. Average earnings/starter: 3k/49k. AEI: .43/1.31. Yearlings @ auction: 7k/8k. 2yo @ acution 7.5k/30k.

I will have to say that Jason (from ATR) uses somewhat inflammatory rhetoric when describing his objections to a particular horse but I think the information is still good. In the case of these two horses, KC and LTF, if you were a potential buyer with 5k in your hand, where would you put your money? ATR is not saying that KC is a worthless horse and has no future of ever becoming a good stallion but rather based on the data RIGHT NOW, there are better ways to invest your money.

Mmmm. LTF for 3.5k looks pretty good. Where does he stand?

[austique]

Tiger Ridge has done very well for his stud fee and lack of race record. Walmac was talking about moving him to KY a last year, but must've felt he'd do better in FL. As for ATR's reccommendation that he's good for mares with problematic confirmation. I'd go look at him. His race record indicates he had some major soundness issues and he is a Storm Cat.

As for ATR and King Cugat. You're comparing apples to oranges there. Lite the Fuse is made stallion. It's easy to point to a made stallions statistics and say "There you go. He's really good." Its even easier to pick on stallions as their first crops come to race as they typically have awful numbers starting off. If he's going to recommend breed to race stallions then he needs to stick to stallions that have enough data to make a conclusive judgment about instead of jumping on a stallion who's oldest foals are 2yos coming three. One crop is not a good sample size to draw a conclusion off of. King Cugat had a first crop of 45 foals and is following up with a crop of 134 foals and his foals should be later maturing types, so he should be given a few years before being thrown in the trash heap. Same goes for the other young stallions he placed on his worst list.

[Colonel]

Mmmm. LTF for 3.5k looks pretty good. Where does he stand?

He's at PIN OAK LANE FARM, in Pa. KC is at Lanes End in Ky. Although LTF fee is cheaper, he was the #2 ranked Pa stallion of 2004, and the #1 ranked stallion in Pa in 2005. IMO he is getting the better Pa mares, while KC is the "cheapest" Lanes End Stallion on the roster. He's by no means getting the best Ky mares. If you look at Lanes End stallion roster, with the likes of A.P. INDY, DIXIE UNION, DIXIELAND BAND, GULCH, KINGMAMBO, LEMON DROP KID, and MINESHAFT, he's not even getting the best mares at Lanes End.

That said, with his pedigree, and 15 of 16 on the board finishes and nearly 1.3 mil earnings, KC can be a good value for a regional mare owner.

Regards

[joho]

I have seen him in person, he is SOOOOOOOOOOOO crooked!! so badly pigeon toed, its not funny.. seriously, anyone else see him in person?!? back at the knee, offset & pigeon toed..

[jagger]

Are you referring to Lite the Fuse, joho?