Chronic Laminitis -***UPDATE***

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FancyHorse
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Chronic Laminitis -***UPDATE***

Postby FancyHorse » Tue Jul 11, 2006 12:16 pm

UPDATE
Well, I found a great home for my foundered Gelding. He is going to be sponsored and funded by THE EXCELLER FUND and is going to his new foster home in Northern CA. I thank everyone at THE EXCELLER FUND and also his new foster home for being able to take him this wonderful guy and may he live out his days without worry or suffering!


I currently have a 4yr old Gelding with a left front club foot. We claimed him about 6 months ago and noticed he is sore in his left front foot. We gave him time off and then decided to xray the foot.
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It turns out he has chronic laminitis. We consulted our ferrier and he suggested corrective shoeing and to let the foot grow. He put a really thick shoe on him that connects all the way and we have left it on for about 3 months. This morning we had to take it off because it was loose and noticed that his coffin bone has fully rotated and when you pick up the foot you can see the coffin bone with no part of the hoof protecting it.
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We have done some research ourselves and everyone suggests to let the hoof grow out as much as possible. Then trim the hoof to make the coffin bone sit at a different angle and put a special shoe on him. My concern is that if I can see the coffin bone just by picking his foot up, what does that mean for his future. He can walk fine, but does jog lame. Also wondering if a 6 month turn out would help him. Anyone ever had this problem before? I also read somewhere that going bare foot would be the best. Just looking for some insite!
Last edited by FancyHorse on Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby KamiBrooks » Tue Jul 11, 2006 2:10 pm

Here's a discussion group on barefoot approach.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/naturalhorsetrim

You can post your photos there and get feedback about barefoot. They will definitely not recommend shoes. Barefoot lower the heel, trying to get the cofin bone ground parallel and allow the hoof wall to grow down around it in the proper position. You can find before/after photos of the successes they've had through that email list.

Many shoeing approaches (and vets) say to raise the heel. I've never had luck with that. Their theory is that the tendon is strong enough to pull the coffin bone away from a proper connections. I've never found any actual study that proved that the tendon can have that effect. After 2 different shoeing attempts, I get the best results barefoot and am not likely to ever try shoes or any approach that raises heels again.

There are also a lot of boots that can protect his sole w/shoes if it is that thin. I know easy boot is one, but don't know which is best. I wrap a protective pad onto the foot if its been trimmed too low.

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Postby Shammy Davis » Wed Jul 12, 2006 7:27 pm

I took a OTTB with similar circumstances 4 years back. His name is Early Start. I'm a retired farrier and I can tell you that it going to take a great deal of time and patience to save him and the odds are not in your favor. So here goes. I went the no shoe route with our gelding. No more nailed on shoes. They cause as much trauma as the original injury. I used a MAC Boot on both front hooves, because you have to remember that your horse is placing more weight on the uninjured side. That side needs a comfort zone. It is taking a great deal of stress now and will for some time into the future. Boots should not be left on for more than 24 hours at a time. Remove them and use a infant diaper packed with foam on the bottom of the hoof and secured with Duct Tape to allow the hoof to breath for 4 to 6 hours. Expect abcesses and plenty of them. The MAC Boot, or use a DAVIS Boot, is great for soaking with Epsom Salts. Soak an infant diaper, wrap around the hoof and insert into the boot. They also keep the hoof relatively clean. Abcesses are just the nature of the disease. Abcesses will test your spirit. Do not, I repeat, do not trim away any of the sole. Occasionally, I might trim the wall to remove sharp or broken edges but otherwise I let the hoof alone. Don't worry about the other hooves either. You don't want to be messing around with them forcing him to place weight on the injured side. The only protection your horse has is what is between the coffin bone and the ground. My anti-inflammatory of choice is apple sweeten aspirin. Use it. Do not confine the horse. Put your horse in a spacious paddock. Lots of movement will aid in circulation and expedite healing. He will move when and where he wants. Make sure he has a room with a view. Seeing other horses maintains the spirit and will to live. Plenty of good hay. He will lay down alot. There are sometimes he'll look like he can't get up. He is probably in some discomfort. You have to let him go through it. He'll get up when he's able and if he can't then there is really nothing you can do. Finally, there will be days you think he going to drop over and die. His head will be hung so low, you'll want to cry. It is a terrible feeling, but I'm believer that if you keep the faith, he'll keep the spirit. My results with Early Start were excellent. Our gelding is now moving well and my daughter rides him in dressage events. He has limited bouts with lameness but good cold soaks do the trick. The club foot has not changed angle since the very beginning. It is definitely the health and thickness of the sole that keeps him upright. He'll live a good life here. Lastly, I was a farrier for over 35 years and I can tell you that Early Start is an exception. Founder is an insidious disease. Most horses don't survive. Good luck.

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Postby FancyHorse » Thu Jul 13, 2006 11:33 am

Shammy Davis:

Thank you so much for all that information. We have taken all his shoes off and decided to leave them off. As for the horse's spirits! His spirits are wonderful, he still trys to bite me and I have never seen him lay down. We havn't seen any abcess as of yet. He is kept in a stall for now and we were considering turning him out in a corral alone. We do put him on the hot walker for about 20 minutes a day and he walks normal. I was well surprised by this. He eats very well and has his hay net up all day (oat hay and barley - no alfalfa)! This horse seems like he is a tough one. How long do you think he will need the turn out? When do you suggest we start to work on trimming his feet again? How much does the hoof need to grow out and would you recomend glue on shoes in the future?
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Postby cewright » Thu Jul 13, 2006 1:48 pm

FancyHorse

You will find lots of different opinions on founder. Maybe thats because every horse is different. Some people claim success with barefoot trims, a German vet, Dr Louise Strasser I believe, is a strong proponent of this method. It didn't help me.

I have a large (1200 lb) sadddlebred cross (Dakota) which foundered in 1999 after being treated with Quest dewormer. I have had to fight laminitis and founder ever since. There was a time when the tips of his coffin bones were through his soles. The vet was preparing me to put him down. Instead we found a new farrier who tried an aggressive approach which included dropping the heels to better align the sole with the coffin bone. Supporting the sole to prevent further rotation by using frog support pads and filling the space between the pad and the sole with a synthetic rubber compound (Equithane). Finally, we used a beveled walking horse shoe to promote breakover. We set the shoe as far back as possible and chopped the toe back to the shoe. This seemed to help reduce the stretch and reduce the flare seen on the toe. It took about 18 tough months to get a normal looking foot. He was comfortable within a day of this treatment.

Today Dakota wears normal shoes and is functionally sound. He runs and races in the pasture with his mates and is occasionaly ridden and fox hunted. The keys to his continued comfort seem to be: 1.Aggressively control his grain intake 2. NO fresh green winter grass. (These are loaded with Non-Structural Carbohydrates (NSCs) which have been shown to be a strong contrubuting factor to re-occuring laminitis.) 3. Frequent trimming to maintain proper hoof angles. DO NOT TRIM AWAY ANY SOLE!

We had a lot of setbacks before we found a program which kept Dakota comfortable. It is heartbreaking to watch any horse, particularly one you love, suffer. However, with proper pain management and patience he can pull through. My guy has never shown any signs of wanting to give up. As his steward, I have done everything in my power to keep him comfortable

Good Luck!

Chuck

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Postby Shammy Davis » Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:34 pm

Fancyhorse asked:
How long do you think he will need the turn out? When do you suggest we start to work on trimming his feet again? How much does the hoof need to grow out and would you recomend glue on shoes in the future?


First, you are welcome. I'm glad to help. To answer your questions, let me say: take one day at a time. One of the reasons BARBARO is suffering is because his lack of weigh bearing movement evenly distributed on all limbs has corrupted the circulation to the one of his hooves. I think it is the injured leg. Don't let that happen to your horse. Let this horse move as best as he can. Unfortunately, for BARBARO, he doesn't have that luxury. If your horse is not moving, his problem will only get worse with stall rest. Forget the shoes, even glue on. Boots are the best direction to take. They give complete support at the sole, along the hoof wall, and gives connection and support at the pastern. Remember, the laminae is diseased and separated from the hoof wall. How much will be hard to tell. Measure the good hoof to size the boot. Of course, the good hoof will be larger than the narrower stubby club, so when you put them on him, you'll have to use spacers, best made of foam or some soft poly material to keep it in place on the club foot. Forget the trimming for now. If you lift his other feet to trim them, he has to put weight on his club foot, thus causing pain and possible injury. Your main objective is to allow the hoof wall and sole to grow and stabilize. My experience is the good front hoof will flair and look enormous compared to the club. It can be corrected later. You are looking at many months of patience. I really didn't get Early Start moving at the trot until a year had passed. There are going to be set backs. One day at a time. PM me and I'll give you my telephone #if you need a more precise explanation of what to do. It doesn't hurt to work with a good vet. I'm not a vet and when it comes to pain meds and dealing with the stress factors of recovery, a good vet is always welcome. I'm a very lucky horseman. The two Vets I use are both experienced track vets. They've seen it all. A great many barn call vets as I call them don't see many of the injuries and stresses a racehorse or sport horse endures. Good luck.

cewright posted:
Instead we found a new farrier who tried an aggressive approach which included dropping the heels to better align the sole with the coffin bone.


This is a good point that you make. A good farrier will know when to begin trimming the heel to reduce the angle. In this case, I think allowing the sole to grow and gain depth between the tip of the coffin bone and the ground is the first step. I'm no longer a proponent of nail on shoes, but in your case the shoe elevated the sole which is same thing the boots do. After 30 plus years, I realize in the case of injured hooves that putting nails in to the wall is tantamount to adding injury on top of injury. Boots are certainly a luxury in todays equine world. What I like about them is the flexibility they give. They come off easily. They are easy to clean. Bandages and soaking pads can be inserted and they give very good protection to the entire hoof when a horse is turned out. As you point out, there are many approaches to treating this disease. It sounds to me like both you and your farrier were on top of things and I applaud your results.

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Postby madelyn » Fri Jul 14, 2006 12:04 am

So what would you do for a discarded broodmare, dam of winners, with her coffin bones fully showing, and sore?
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

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Postby Shammy Davis » Fri Jul 14, 2006 6:31 am

Madelyn: Every case I've worked with has had a different schedule of events involving treatment and the healing process. How is mare moving now? Are there incidents of abcessing and how frequent? Is she wearing shoes? Appetite and spirit? Is she is distributing weight unevenly on her limbs? Is she showing signs of physical stress at her flanks and shoulders? Has a she been examined by a vet? Does he/she think the problem can be resolved or is the damage too extreme? Are you willing to make a major effort to save her? I think the above method will work for you, just as for our Early Start, but attention to detail is important and if you can't do the treatment yourself, it can be expensive. I'm very fortunate because I have the skills and experience. I know you do to, so if you want to PM me, I'll give you my telephone # and walk you through the process. Once again, as you know, founder is an insidious disease and once it gets out of hand, there is little that can be done. Best wishes.

To everyone reading this thread: I encourage anyone dealing with hoof problems to work with a competent farrier and trusted veterinarian in your area. My post to this thread was meant to give an alternative method of treatment to consider and provide some of the mechanics involved. Advice given on this board or any board for that matter can be sketchy at best. No one should diagnose and treat any equine ailment as a result of information on this board. I learned many years ago, and I have practiced this personally, that equine health professionals, farriers, EqDT, etc. should provide the client with a minimum of 3 alternative treatments that meet the needs of the horse and the resources of the client. One of those alternatives can be "do nothing." In emergency situations 2 alternatives are the norm. Remember if the professional has the skills and knowledge to advertise himself as a professional, then they have the experience and knowledge to provide althernatives to you. The other side of the coin is that a website board does not provide the credits for those posting. On this board in particular, there are those interested in pedigrees, or who are handicappers, or maybe enthusiast who participate and toss in their 2 cents. You can be an expert on reading TB history and pedigrees and not even have owned a horse or been near a farm. Many of the writers for equine magazines today learned there horsemanship skills at journalism school. You would not want them to be in your barn during an emergency. Please use your good common sense and horsemanship when dealing with the care of your horses.

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Postby FancyHorse » Fri Jul 14, 2006 11:43 am

Update:

Since the first post my Gelding has gotton worse. I can now see more of his coffin bone coming thorough his sole. I do not trust any of the vets and farriers at our track! The vets have done nothing but mis diagnosed our other horses in the past and different farriers have made a couple of my horses sore, just not for a day or two, but for a couple of months. I do not want to seek out a vet's opinion because I know what the answer will be, it will be "Put him down". Eventhough the horse does walk with a slight limp, he still wants to move around, never lies down, and eats well. I'll post some pics this weekend.
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Postby WarHorse » Sat Jul 15, 2006 4:53 pm

Find an outside vet.

Just my two cents.
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Postby Shammy Davis » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:18 am

Fancyhorse: Warhorse is right.
Find an outside vet.
Don't delay. Best of luck.

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Postby FancyHorse » Mon Jul 17, 2006 11:41 am

Update:

Since my last post on this topic my gelding is showing signs of getting better. We have left him bare foot and have had his heal trimed down to try and align the coffin bone with his sole. Everyday I notice the coffin bone is lining up more and more with his sole and this big guy has such a great haert!!! On the walker (where the dirt is very soft) he walks like a completely sound horse! Only on the hard dirt does he shows signs of lamness. His spirits have always been up and never a dull day for him. Nickers at feed time, trys to bite me. Unfortunetly, I will be having to find a new home for him. We are moving our training barn to a different race track and they will not allow him to come with us considering he will not be running there. If anyone knows of anyone in CA that would take on this guy, PM me. I do not want him to go to a home with they will put him down and I will not take him to the sells. Thanks everyone for this input, you were all wonderful!

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Postby FancyHorse » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:09 pm

FOR THE RECENT UP DATE 7-31-06 SEE THE FIRST POST!
"LIFE IS RACING, ANYTHING BEFORE OR AFTER IS JUST WAITING" -McQueen