Stallion Prospect-Opinions wanted

njc2000 · Postby **njc2000** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:06 am

There is a stud named Rical Parade who is currently on lay-off from racing- he has a full sister named Star Parade who ran out 1.2 Million. I am curious as to what knowledgable pedigree people think of his bloodline. I like that he is free of Northern Dancer and I believe My Babu is a line of note but I would like some opinions before I approached his owner about breeding possibilities. What kind of mares (on paper) would cross well with him? He is of average height with a well-balanced body and seemingly good temperment. There is a lot of soundness in his bloodline and among his siblings but he has had some leg issues for whatever reason. Not all lameness is the fault of conformation- track surface can have a lot to do with it and he did race in Argentina. I don't know what their tracks are like...Anway, I am just looking for some input on him. Thanks!

casallc · Postby **casallc** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:21 am

I would think there should be a lot of demand for a 5 year old horse who just broke his maiden in a $4,000 claiming race. Sounds like sire material to me.

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 10:41 am

oh casallc you naughty....

Seriously, the fact that he is half brother to Star Parade is not NEARLY so significant as it would be if he was a filly and a half SISTER to Star Parade. There isn't much in this horse's pedigree that screams sire but he might make a Very Nice Gelding for someone....

njc2000 · Postby **njc2000** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:07 pm

well, when i asked for an opinion I didn't expect it to be dripping with sarcasm but breeding does tell..............Not all of us can afford high priced sires- not when our horses run for 2500.00 purses.....and HOW many stallions DO stand that have never even won a race?? More than you probably know about. Thanks anyway- I DID ask for opinions, after all.

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:26 pm

njc2000 wrote:HOW many stallions DO stand that have never even won a race?? More than you probably know about.

And twice as many than should -- that goes for breeding mares with incredibly weak race records as well. There are FAR too many horses in the breeding pool as it is.

No, I don't see this horse having any appeal as a sire. You could probably find better for about the same price or a little more depending on where you are and where you plan on standing him. Standing a stallion just isn't that easy, especially in the regional markets with trash stallions (anything you can't justify a $2k stud fee for is a trash stallion to me and shouldn't be bred, same for the mares).

Breeding winners isn't easy, why hamstring yourself by starting with inferior stock to begin with?

If you are really serious about standing a low end stallion, be prepared to do a LOT of deep research and try to find something with a proven blue collar female family that has already produced a couple of breed to race regional sires.

UmmYeah · Postby **UmmYeah** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:30 pm

I think the thing to keep in mind is that he was running for a $3200 tag. So definitely don't pay much for him. Even if you really do believe in him, it sure will be an uphill battle convincing others. Still, do you really want a stallion that had to drop to the very bottom at Portland Meadows in order to break his maiden, when there are plenty of nicely bred stallions that won a lot of money and only stand for $1000?

njc2000 · Postby **njc2000** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 1:58 pm

Maybe I should clarify here- I wasn't planning on standing this guy anywhere or buying him - just possibly jumping him on a few of my "trash" mares if the owner was reasonable and interested in that. But would someone please tell me what is wrong with his female family?? Do I not see lots of black type there? And also, please explain to my ignorance how a mare and a colt with same sire and dam are not full siblings? I do know that the owners went to Arg and bought this horse to bring over here so someone somewhere must have thought he was worth some trouble. That was why I was asking about him......... I am always curious about this illusive thing that we all try to put a finger on in the pedigree of a thoroughbred. And yes, you are right, there are lots of horses out there that should never be bred. We could say the same for other species as well.

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 2:44 pm

njc2000 wrote:But would someone please tell me what is wrong with his female family?? Do I not see lots of black type there?

He has a sister that is black type -- and half a dozen other siblings that are garbage collectors. Mom is black type as are just about all of her siblings.

It's not his dam that is producing viable race horses and making his page look good, it's his 2nd dam. Add that to the fact that all the black type is Argentinian and most of it not graded, it's a hard sell pedigree to American breeders... especially from a horse who broke his maiden at Portland Meadows for 4k as a 5yo. His sister has talent. A few of his cousins have talent... he does not. He would make someone a really nice gelding.

If you're willing to take the risk on what is clearly an inferior race horse, it's your money. If you're breeding to race, then no one else's opinion matters. If you think your going to sell a foal from this horse and make any money off the deal... good luck.

njc2000 wrote:And also, please explain to my ignorance how a mare and a colt with same sire and dam are not full siblings?

Probably just a typo. He and Star Parade are full siblings.

njc2000 wrote:I do know that the owners went to Arg and bought this horse to bring over here so someone somewhere must have thought he was worth some trouble.

Still owned by the people who brought him to the US? Not that it matters. Yes, someone must have thought he was worth the effort to bring him here.. someone was obviously wrong. It happens.

njc2000 wrote:And yes, you are right, there are lots of horses out there that should never be bred. We could say the same for other species as well.

I sincerely hope that was NOT aimed at me. Others were being caustic; I was trying to give you honest answers and was not in any way being snide or condescending.

Yes, you DID ask for opinions. If you were not prepared to hear that people thought this horse was trash based on his performace, then you shouldn't have asked. I really don't like it when people ask for an opinion and then get overly defensive when the one they get isn't positive.

njc2000 · Postby **njc2000** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:11 pm

Actually, no, I was referring to the many unwanted cats and dogs populating this world.

I have nothing invested in this horse we are discussing and am certainly not defending him. MY honest bid for opinions was met with immediate sarcasm and I apologize if it perhaps put me on the defensive. I am just trying to learn and certainly admit to a bit of naivetty(sp). You all have been very helpful and I'm sure if I hang in here there will be much to learn from everyone.

Sam · Postby **Sam** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:23 pm

njc2000 wrote:MY honest bid for opinions was met with immediate sarcasm and I apologize if it perhaps put me on the defensive.

I am part of a fairly tight online community that was once described as "a cross between the Brady Bunch and the Manson Family. Get use to it"... that description seems kind of apropos here as well.

Well... maybe not the Mansons for this bunch... more like the Munsters. :wink:

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:27 pm

Now, here's the thing. You asked for opinions about this horse's potential as a stallion. Sorry, yes he is a FULL brother to Star Parade. You didn't come out and say you were going to use him to jump your mares for free. Of course I would assume that after that, you will care for or look out for all of those offspring. Would I pay to breed to that stallion? No.

But that is just my opinion.

njc2000 · Postby **njc2000** » Mon Oct 23, 2006 9:07 pm

Well, lets see, of the fifteen head I feed, five of them have been given to me by breeders/owners who have no use for them since they aren't stakes placed, two of them earn their keep ponying race horses, one is seventeen and I watched him being born, and then there are the two mustangs that truly represent a needy population. Oh ya, another one was labeled "incorrigable" by her race trainer- she is a top notch jumper, and then there is the mare who was jammed in the gate her second start as a two year old and fractured her pelvis- she is here because the other option is what we are all lobbying against and then there is the pony we call Lucky because he is lucky to be alive since his former owner was going to shoot him. He is a neighborhood favorite of the kids. Then there is the older broodmare who's owner gave her away because he couldn't depreciate her anymore and took the tax write-off--- but ya, I probably don't have any business dreaming of a racehorse of my own. I am too busy taking care of everyone else's castaways. Could be why I don't have enough money for a decent stallion fee, hhmmm... perhaps I'll just leave this horse business to the experts.