Tribal Rule

[Keith]

Tribal Rule seems to be having a fast start as a son of Storm Cat standing in California. He is out of a half sister to successful California sire Pirate's Bounty. He seems to offer value at $5,000

Keith

[Laro]

Stopped by River Edge today to see him, I went to see both him and Marino Marini, and Roar. Tribal Rule is very balanced and his knees are very good for a Storm Cat. He looked as though he has alot of class and moved very well. He is good sized but not huge. Roar is very big, and again very well balanced, and also shows alot of class. He seems very well tempered. I liked him alot. Marino Marini had typical Storm Cat knees, and he seemed out of balance, I really didn't care for him. Saw some babies of M&M and some were correct, but 1 had awful knees. I just wasn't impressed with him. Roar's hard to beat by looks, but I liked Tribal Rule almost as well.

[Winnie]

Marino Marini and Roar stand at Rancho San Miguel. Tribal Rule stands at River Edge.

Anyway I do not like Tribal Rules stats as of yet. He foals do look good therefore they sell well, but he doesn't improve his mares... AEI 0.96 and CI 1.12.

only 30% starters from foals and only 44% winners from starters. Not exactly anything to write home about

[Laro]

I went to BOTH farms, I was traveling around to see those horses. There only a couple hours away from each other. Its interesting to hear worries about stats on such a new stallion. Came Home's first runner won its first time out, making him 100% winners from runners. The babies look good, he's had some Stakes horses, and they are selling well, what more do you want? With that as your only criteria A.P Indy and Storm Cat both are bad sires.

[BargainBlueblood]

I never worry about the AEI-to-CI ratio for a young stallion with only one or two crops running. These numbers are very skewed at that point in a stallion's career. You need to give the runners a chance to get up and running before you pass too harsh a judgment on such grounds. Obviously a HUGE negative difference is cause for concern, but given the example pointed to here, I'd suspect this son of Storm Cat will be proven to pull his mares up in 6-12 months time if his results continue to hold.

[Rokeby Forever]

Nuclear weapons...Global Warming.....famine/hunger....and Storm Cats popping up everywhere like zits on a teenage face - all downfalls of mankind as we know it.

AEI lovers....Giant's Causeway's is 2.10 and his CI is 3.64. How do his offspring sell even though he has 29% winners/foals? Gee, I guess he's just overbred...to one of the finest books of mares in the first 3 years to race of ANY stallion's career. Storm Cats, huh?

I guess that another 3 year crop to race sire, More Than Ready, having less foals but more starters, winners, repeat winners, stakes winners, better AEI with a much lower CI is just a fluke...and having 149 foals/year of racing age doesn't make him "overbred' as well. Oops...he's not a Storm Cat!

[Laro19]

Well for the record More than Ready is a very good sire. But this thread started about Tribal Rule. Tribal Rule is a $5,000 California sire versus More Than Ready which is $40,000 and in Kentucky. I'm looking in California for a Stallion to breed to and produce runners, not necessarily Derby winners (although that would be nice) but I'm looking for breed to race, California stallions and for my money Tribal Rule is a good value for my mare. In California we have alot of Storm Cats, and I'm looking to breed a horse that can run and pick up a check. If you can show me a better stallion in California, for the money I'll listen. I'd love to have the option of every stallion in the book, but I don't. If I had my druthers, I'd be booked to A.P Indy, but I'm lacking about $295,000. Tribal Rule has no 3 year old runners. 47% winners, 6% stakes winners is OK by me for only having 2 year olds.

[Sam]

I'm looking in California for a Stallion to breed to and produce runners, not necessarily Derby winners (although that would be nice) but I'm looking for breed to race, California stallions and for my money Tribal Rule is a good value for my mare.

Who's the mare and have you been to Tommy Town?

[Rokeby Forever]

I was simply stating that even the best Storm Cats aren't cutting it.

How about a stallion like Kelly Kip? Lots of speed for those Cal Bred sprints! I think he's standing for around $2,500.

[Sysonby]

Well for the record More than Ready is a very good sire. But this thread started about Tribal Rule. Tribal Rule is a $5,000 California sire versus More Than Ready which is $40,000 and in Kentucky. I'm looking in California for a Stallion to breed to and produce runners, not necessarily Derby winners (although that would be nice) but I'm looking for breed to race, California stallions and for my money Tribal Rule is a good value for my mare. In California we have alot of Storm Cats, and I'm looking to breed a horse that can run and pick up a check. If you can show me a better stallion in California, for the money I'll listen. I'd love to have the option of every stallion in the book, but I don't. If I had my druthers, I'd be booked to A.P Indy, but I'm lacking about $295,000. Tribal Rule has no 3 year old runners. 47% winners, 6% stakes winners is OK by me for only having 2 year olds.

For breed to Race under $7500, check out Old Topper. He has a big ol' suitcase head but they've been running.

Also I agree with you on Roar. A 3 year old could lead him around safely in a halter but he has so much presence it's more like being with a benevolent despot than a placid riding horse. My Roar colt had a very similar personality.

Of the Storm Cat colts in the state, I think Marino Marini has the goods to go far. I know Roger Stein took a swipe at him recently but this is a horse that was only a nose from standing in Kentucky. Losing to Southern Image at that point in their respective careers was no shame. Also his babies have some buzz. However, if you are breeding to race, you probably want to go with proven.

Have you considered Formal Gold? Admittedly they don't sell well and he doesn't have the "big horse" (yet) but look at how many of them have cracked the 6 figure barrier on the track. My avatar is a Formal Gold yearling that I am really pleased with.

[Elles]

Something different: how can one see if knees are good or not because I have no idea what this bad knee thing means or looks like.

[Sysonby]

Something different: how can one see if knees are good or not because I have no idea what this bad knee thing means or looks like.

I think that the poster is referring to offset knees or knees that do not point straight ahead but are set at a slight angle to the rest of the leg. Storm Cat line horses are notorious for offset knees as are several other TB lines.

[Rokeby Forever]

Most, if not all, high profile sires (Storm Cat, Unbridled's Song, etc...) have/had soundness problems and conformation faults, as do most if not all of their sons at stud. Simply, a breeder has 2 choices - go to a $10,000 sire with fashionable lines and faults or pick a $10,000 "breed to race" sire that promises some measure of durability. Those breeding to sell will want the fashionable pedigree, and those breeding to race will opt for the sturdier sire.

Does that sum up stallion selection in a nutshell?

[Winnie]

IRON CAT, by Storm Cat is doing well right now. His are the kind of the stats I am talking about.

69 named foals...39 starters...34 winners! Earning $1,631,985
AEI 1.47...COMP 0.97 he improves his mares.

3 stakes winners, 1 stakes placed all earned over $100,000

Compare that to TRIBAL RULES Stats

54 named foals...16 starters...7 winners. Earning $226,963
AEI 0.96....COMP 1.12

1 stakes winner, 4 stakes placed. highest earner showing $28,000

Iron Cats stud fee is only $3,000

[Elles]

So this is the problem:
http://www.ustrotting.com/hoofbeats/conformation-jl.htm
Offset knees: This is when the knee seems to be set on sideways. You can notice it if you stand in front of a horse and study where the forearm comes into the knee, and where the cannon bone comes out of the knee. You want a straight line, but if you don't have that, you have offset knees. That will lead to soundness problems.