Inbreeding questions

[Mood Swings]

If you see a mare that is 3x4 Raise A Native, does that turn you off or is it A-OK? What about breeding a mare with RAN in the 4th gen. to a stallion that has RAN in the 3rd gen? Also as a buyer would you look the other way if you saw a yearling inbred Bold Ruckus 2x3? Trying to figure it all out Thanks!

[K~2]

I don't quite understand why people shun this inbreeding. It's often mentioned that RAN is a source of unsoundness. IMHO, look at the induvidual, if the horse you are looking at has it's legs screwed on backwards, and couldn't run a lick.. pass.

[madelyn]

Well there was always Hallowed Dreams and her siblings by I'ma Hellraiser as examples....

[louis finochio]

Not all of the TB that are inbred as you posted have career ending injuries.

If you like an inbred individual that passes your conformation inspection, go then to the 1st 3 dams and see how many starts their offspring made.

Also check each generation of the TB pedigree looking for soundness, if you find many unraced individuals, that means those TB were lacking soundness.

[Mood Swings]

Louis Finochio - good advice, thank you. The mare in question did not race, however her full sister is a stakes winner and she is from an active family. I breed to sell so I guess I would like to know if I purchased a mare in foal and the resulting foal (inbred 2x3 Bold Ruckus and 4x5 RAN) sold as a yearling would buyers even bother to consider this horse or would the inbreeding be too much of a deterent? I am curious to hear what buyers think, thank you.

[madelyn]

In my opinion, knowingly creating a product that may deter even a small percentage of buyers is not a good business practice, if your intention is to sell the product.

Inbreeding because you believe in it, and will race the offspring, is another thing entirely.

[ASB]

Inbreeding is fine as long as the individuals through which the inbreeding is taking place are class individuals. Its when you start seeing inbreeding through inferior horses that the consistently poor results become an issue.

[griff]

My dad told me it was line-breeding when it worked and in-breeding when it did not

griff

[CA Michael]

Using inbred stock to transmit intensified strains of quality stock has long been used by the world's greatest breeders. It's when you outcross mares like this to unrelated stallions which are themselves inbred to entirely different horses that you can create hybrid vigor. I suggest you make as many possible "paper matings" as you can using this thought, then after evaluating issues such as soundness, conformation, temperament, gait, nicks, marketability, etc., reduce your list to a small one. Unless you're an accomplished breeder, it's much better to use a methodical process than personal bias.

[louis finochio]

When a breeder inbreeds or line-breeds and the offspring of these matings are of superior performance, you would continue to breed to those inbred individuals.

If the offspring of those inbred matings fail on the racetrack you would abandon those matings.

[xfactor fan]

A great book on how to linebreed/inbreed is the University of Oklahoma "The King Ranch Quarter Horses"

In short, they found a superior individual, then crossed half siblings, and culled like crazy. All offspring were performance tested, and only superior individuals were added back to the breeding population.

They then did the same to create a new breed of cattle.

The key seems to have a large number of individuals to work with, and keep the vision of the end product in mind. Also the wisdom to select superior individuals to start with.

[Savana Star Dubois]

I let the stallion farm pick out the stallion late in the season when my mare retired and I was horrified that the cross 2x3.to Mr Prospector...I imagined crooked joints, five legs etc...to my surprise (knock on wood) she is well balance,,wonderful conformation with hind end of quarter horse..lol.now at track in training and is doing well

[Bondama]

I've also heard "breed the best to the best and hope for the best".

[Toccet02]

How many owners/breeders live by this mantra without taking the 2 horse's physical traits (or other factors, unsucessful nicks, etc) into consideration?
Not a rhetorical question. I've often herad this and wonder if breeders would go for breeding 2 champs regardless of obvious deficiencies that might be a bad idea to cross. Thoughts?

[jagger]

ASB hit the nail on the head and if I could elaborate. One of the conduits to RAN is almost surely Mr. P. The conduits to Mr. P that are the most successful when doing a Mr. P (and therefor RAN) inbreeding are Fappiano, Forty Niner, Woodman, Conquistador Cielo and maybe one or two more. Fappiano is head and shoulders above all others, though. Hope this helps.