What Is Your Goal....

General on-topic discussion.

Moderators: Roguelet, hpkingjr, WaveMaster

Winnie
Maiden Special Weight
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:54 pm

What Is Your Goal....

Postby Winnie » Thu Jan 18, 2007 12:15 pm

as a breeder?

I was in a discussion with a friend who says "if you are not trying to get a G1SW then you are not doing it right" they only believe in breeding to a sire that has produced a G1SW even if that sire has many that couldn't run. So to them Unusual Heat is no good...but Siberian Summer is :? I mentioned SS stud fee keeps going down while UH keeps going up.

I told him my goal is to bred a stakes winner (I could quit happy if I did that) or at least horses that can earn over $100,000. If a graded stakes horse or Kentucky Derby horse is the result of that I would certainly be most happy.

The fact that we have been able to breed and not be in debt and have profited from our horses is enough for me. We are enjoying the game and enjoy raising the horses.

Set you sights too high you will surely be disapointed and it isn't fun anymore. JMO

User avatar
Barbaro06
Grade I Winner
Posts: 1687
Joined: Sat May 06, 2006 5:46 pm
Location: Virginia

Postby Barbaro06 » Thu Jan 18, 2007 2:12 pm

I think you have to set your goals realistically. Everybody wants to breed a GI winner, a Derby winner, etc., etc. You also have to look at the odds of doing such. You may have the most beautifully bred horse in the barn but the horse gets hurt and never runs or never runs the same after the injury, the horse simply cannot run (or doesn't want to run)....I could go on and on. There are so many variables to breeding a racehorse it makes your head spin. I am sure you are aware of that. :D

Then there are times you get lucky and get the one that knocks your socks off.

Glad to hear that you have reaped rewards from your horses...and yes, have fun while your at it! 'Cause when it stops being fun...it becomes drudgery!
A horse gallops with his lungs
Perseveres with his heart
And wins with his character. --Tesio

teb
Allowance Winner
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Co. Meath, Ireland

Postby teb » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:26 am

Winnie,
I'm with you. I want to breed the best possible horse my funds allow and enjoy raising and breaking our babies and sending them off to be racehorses. We make a decent living, work hard, and love every minuete of it.
Good Luck to you!
Terri

User avatar
BenB
Sophomore Sire
Posts: 3213
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 12:13 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Postby BenB » Fri Jan 19, 2007 11:33 am

Terri all up with you, although I do not live from the horses at all, for me
they are a kind of theraphy after my daily work.
The filly is a hobby, for pleasure.
If she returns for breeding, I will try to mate her to the best I can afford.

Ben

User avatar
henthorn
Eclipse Champion
Posts: 2463
Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2004 6:05 pm
Location: Oklahoma City, OK

Postby henthorn » Fri Jan 19, 2007 6:45 pm

High expectations are appropriate, but the term is different for each individual. The great majority of even well-bred horses are flops as racehorses, so the only way to PLAN on a G1 winner is to start with a large herd of excellent horses and be persistent.

At the same time, there is no excuse for taking poor horses and breeding them in hopes of "winning the lottery" with them. That's like taking all your stray dogs and letting them breed at will. You'll just have a lot of extras that are hard to get rid of, and will eat you out of house and home.

A small, manageable number of horses with proven racing or breeding history is enough to produce one that will shine in certain state-bred racing programs or local tracks.

And the chances of a truly SPECIAL animal being produced is a dream we all share.
Rocking H

louis finochio
Darley line
Posts: 9181
Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:21 am
Location: Alhambra-Calif.
Contact:

Postby louis finochio » Sat Jan 20, 2007 6:55 am

The biggest mistake made by a novice breeder is too purchase too many Tb in hope of producing a Gr Sw.

Many years later the novice will realize that buying quality over quanity will pay big dividends.

A Tb breeder must weed his garden and improve his class of Tb or he will fall behind his competition.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio

User avatar
tammysinnett
Starters Handicap
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:44 pm
Location: AVON.ILLINOIS

wish I would have known what I know now

Postby tammysinnett » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:09 am

I always thought that if I was realistic the level of stallion I had then I could breed at that level....hope that makes since...anyway we bought mares (2) with this intention. Thinking we will breed at the lower level, not expecting a SW but just a winner on the smaller races. I have tried to live on this as a hobby so we haven't invested to much...I think I was totally wrong....we should have invested with a really nice broodmare one that may have been proven, to get our stallion out there with some great foals, instead I do have a great filly but know one is willing to take the chance on her because both parents show nothing on paper to make people think she is worth investing the training fees. Can you blame them??? I believe this may be our last year to breed our own..maybe the funds we invest in food for babies in the two years can be used to maybe train one for the track. We are not sure yet what our life in the TB world has to offer....just wish there would have been someway that I could have gotten one to the track....I love my boy sooo much and since the day I have owned him I dreamed of going to the track and watching his foals run....it wasn't about the money but you have to have money to make it work the right way. So my advice to anyone if you have it to invest do.....and do it right......how rewarding it must feel in that winners circle....how rewarding it must feel to know you are responsible for creating such a awesome horse with so much desire.....

User avatar
madelyn
Moderator
Posts: 10067
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 1:53 pm
Location: Louisville, KY

Postby madelyn » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:41 am

louis finochio wrote:The biggest mistake made by a novice breeder is too purchase too many Tb in hope of producing a Gr Sw.

Many years later the novice will realize that buying quality over quanity will pay big dividends.

A Tb breeder must weed his garden and improve his class of Tb or he will fall behind his competition.


Someday Louis will share with us all the names of the champion horses he has produced using his endless, repetitive rhetoric.

In the meantime.. yes, it takes some cash. But not as much as you'd think if you are creative, resourceful, and willing to take some chances. I, too, love my stallion to pieces. And I have spent a LOT of time this year both culling and acquiring. And WHAT a broodmare band we have. A lot of class out there. We've had some nice boosts and lucky breaks here and there (Rocky's yearling half brother fetching $1.3mil and being a session topper got us a lot of press). A couple of LOVELY mares I got last year for foal shares (we take the first foal and return the mare in foal) had owners who changed their minds and plans and simply sent us papers for the mares. No matter how much you believe in your own stallion and mares, and how much absolute faith you have, it can also pay to have one or two contingency plans to help produce revenue along the way. To wit, I got Express to Boston in foal to Street Cry (and on one cover!). I didn't know until later on when I met the chap who originally had Express to Boston just what a LUCKY break that was.. he'd tried to breed her for two years and nothing, nada, nyet.

Most of all, though, I think you have to demonstrate your willingness to go the extra mile. It is perhaps unreasonable to expect someone else to take a weanling with no race history to speak of in its parents, raise it, break it, and spend thousands taking it to the track. So another plan would be for you to break the weanling yourself as a long yearling. Then early in the 2 year old year, spend three months jogging and galloping the horse. Invite a couple of Thoroughbred trainers out to see the now fit youngster. THEN you will probably be able to sell that horse. You could even consider picking up a long yearling or two pretty cheap (skipping the breeding, waiting, foaling, and first two years of life), so your horse would have company and you would have more than one for buyers to look at... you can make quite a bit of money that way if you can pick out good ones that others overlook.

In fact I've done LOTS of things along the way to generate cash to get Rocky's foals on the ground, registered, etc., and will actually get some to the sales this year. But the one thing I have NEVER done is just tried to breed a lower level horse. My goal has ALWAYS been to breed stakes quality horses. No one wants the others...
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....

teb
Allowance Winner
Posts: 295
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:19 pm
Location: Co. Meath, Ireland

Postby teb » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:54 am

I only have 2 mares at the moment. Both are winners, both have black type close up. My mare Fraamtastic is a full sister to a group 2 horse and there is other nice black type in their too. My other mare is related to Mark Of Esteem. Mares on a budget, but not crap either. You have to try and improve the breed and not just breed because you can.

Ben good luck with breeding your filly and I hope you survived the crazy storm o.k.
Terri

BJ
Horse of the Year
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:39 pm

Postby BJ » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:56 am

madelyn wrote:
louis finochio wrote:The biggest mistake made by a novice breeder is too purchase too many Tb in hope of producing a Gr Sw.

Many years later the novice will realize that buying quality over quanity will pay big dividends.

A Tb breeder must weed his garden and improve his class of Tb or he will fall behind his competition.


Someday Louis will share with us all the names of the champion horses he has produced using his endless, repetitive rhetoric.

In the meantime.. yes, it takes some cash. But not as much as you'd think if you are creative, resourceful, and willing to take some chances. I, too, love my stallion to pieces. And I have spent a LOT of time this year both culling and acquiring. And WHAT a broodmare band we have. A lot of class out there. We've had some nice boosts and lucky breaks here and there (Rocky's yearling half brother fetching $1.3mil and being a session topper got us a lot of press). A couple of LOVELY mares I got last year for foal shares (we take the first foal and return the mare in foal) had owners who changed their minds and plans and simply sent us papers for the mares. No matter how much you believe in your own stallion and mares, and how much absolute faith you have, it can also pay to have one or two contingency plans to help produce revenue along the way. To wit, I got Express to Boston in foal to Street Cry (and on one cover!). I didn't know until later on when I met the chap who originally had Express to Boston just what a LUCKY break that was.. he'd tried to breed her for two years and nothing, nada, nyet.

Most of all, though, I think you have to demonstrate your willingness to go the extra mile. It is perhaps unreasonable to expect someone else to take a weanling with no race history to speak of in its parents, raise it, break it, and spend thousands taking it to the track. So another plan would be for you to break the weanling yourself as a long yearling. Then early in the 2 year old year, spend three months jogging and galloping the horse. Invite a couple of Thoroughbred trainers out to see the now fit youngster. THEN you will probably be able to sell that horse. You could even consider picking up a long yearling or two pretty cheap (skipping the breeding, waiting, foaling, and first two years of life), so your horse would have company and you would have more than one for buyers to look at... you can make quite a bit of money that way if you can pick out good ones that others overlook.

In fact I've done LOTS of things along the way to generate cash to get Rocky's foals on the ground, registered, etc., and will actually get some to the sales this year. But the one thing I have NEVER done is just tried to breed a lower level horse. My goal has ALWAYS been to breed stakes quality horses. No one wants the others...


Madelyn...you would be a fun person to follow around and learn from. Not too close mind you :wink: Cuz I know I'd piss you off regularly :lol:

BJ
Horse of the Year
Posts: 2650
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 3:39 pm

Postby BJ » Sat Jan 20, 2007 10:57 am

teb wrote:I only have 2 mares at the moment. Both are winners, both have black type close up. My mare Fraamtastic is a full sister to a group 2 horse and there is other nice black type in their too. My other mare is related to Mark Of Esteem. Mares on a budget, but not crap either. You have to try and improve the breed and not just breed because you can.

Ben good luck with breeding your filly and I hope you survived the crazy storm o.k.
Terri


BRAVO!!!

Winnie
Maiden Special Weight
Posts: 234
Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:54 pm

Postby Winnie » Sat Jan 20, 2007 1:57 pm

The biggest mistake made by a novice breeder is too purchase too many Tb in hope of producing a Gr Sw.

Many years later the novice will realize that buying quality over quanity will pay big dividends.

A Tb breeder must weed his garden and improve his class of Tb or he will fall behind his competition.


VERY VERY TRUE!

User avatar
tammysinnett
Starters Handicap
Posts: 587
Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2005 5:44 pm
Location: AVON.ILLINOIS

yes yes yes

Postby tammysinnett » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:16 pm

I too would love to go with Madelyn.....I have learned so much from her and many others....that is why I sure would have done it differently....but its been a verygood learning experience and as always I still love my boy, I hope if there is any newbies reading these post youlearn some things from me to....the most I can give you is the mistakes I have made and you learn from them :D Good Luck to all and listen to the posters on this board they are very good teachers. And I havent given up yet I have just slowed down to take some deep breaths learn a little more. :wink:

UK Breeder (19)
Yearling
Posts: 54
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2005 5:40 am
Location: Scotland, Uk

Postby UK Breeder (19) » Sat Jan 20, 2007 2:47 pm

I too breed to produce stakes winners. I only have a few of broodmares, but again they are the best I can afford. One is dam of an American Gr.2 winner and second in a Gr.1, whose yearling filly made $130,000. One of my other mare, her cousin made $1.5 million last year who was brought by Godolphin, while another, her half brother was a Gr.3 winner and Gr.1 placed for Godolphin. I hope to breed quality.

Thunder
Allowance Winner
Posts: 384
Joined: Fri Sep 17, 2004 6:28 am
Location: Big Sky Country

Postby Thunder » Sat Jan 20, 2007 3:35 pm

My Stake winners are coming in a few years and many thanks to Madelyn :lol: